“Lanes” vs. “tracks”… potato-poTAHto

[Steve Connor]

Is your master color a single file?

[Michael Hancock]

[Steve Connor] “Is your master color a single file?”

Depends on the project, but usually no. Usually it’s an FCPX XML with 24 frame handles, so any last minute tweaks can be made, or transitions can be reapplied, without having to bake in the transitions or go back to color for a two frame trim.

My workflow is to import the FCPX XML, lift it to a secondary storyline, apply the role COLOR to all the clips, copy/paste that as a connected clip to my master edit and start reshuffling stuff to put all the graphics/overlays on top (plus time grouping graphics into secondary storylines). In a track based system I import an AAF (Avid) and edit it directly onto the video track above my main edit (and below my graphics).

—————-
Michael Hancock
Editor

[Richard Herd]

[Jeremy Garchow] “screw up compositing order”

We can now begin to consider nodes and what we are looking at on screen and how we choose to organize it is just the GUI.

[Richard Herd]

[John Rofrano] “how you physically worked with audio in the studio. You have a 16 track recorder and you record everything on it’s own track. You have a 16 track audio mixer and it has both tracks and summing busses. “

Well not exactly because in real life, we also have monitor mix, sends, fx loops, and a drummer who keeps yelling at us that she doesn’t want to hear the guitar, only only the bass and vox — and d a m n it, it should be a dry mix. ?

(Video tracks matter because of compositing order — but that can be handled via nodes.)

[John Rofrano]

[Richard Herd] “Well not exactly because in real life, we also have monitor mix, sends, fx loops, and a drummer who keeps yelling at us that she doesn’t want to hear the guitar, only only the bass and vox — and d a m n it, it should be a dry mix. ?”

Who listens to drummers anyway (except for the bass player). They are always taping on things while you’re trying to talk. lol ?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[Shawn Miller]

[Richard Herd] “(Video tracks matter because of compositing order — but that can be handled via nodes.)”

So, what problem would nodes solve? Stack order would still be of the same level of importance – I think layers/tracks are easier to deal with on simple composites.

Shawn

[Richard Herd]

[Shawn Miller] “So, what problem would nodes solve? Stack order would still be of the same level of importance – I think layers/tracks are easier to deal with on simple composites.
“

Unfortunately, I don’t have a ready-built GUI.

When I think of all the various details in compositing, layers/tracks are a convention. It kind of arises naturally out of “film on top of film” and shining lights through it onto an interpositive.

But also think of additional parameters in the composite that are not actually doing the compositing algorithms — scale, position, rotation, opacity etc.

This means we have some kind of widget interface (usually on the track layer) to set keyframes and move it. Out all those keyframes and parameters. Why not have a widget for stack order? This goes back a bit, but I really liked Apple Color, for example; and also, I prefer the Cinema 4D Xpresso compared to AE’s JavaScript Expression.

[Shawn Miller]

[Richard Herd] “[Shawn Miller] “So, what problem would nodes solve? Stack order would still be of the same level of importance – I think layers/tracks are easier to deal with on simple composites.
”

Unfortunately, I don’t have a ready-built GUI.”

Actually, I would like to see what you’re envisioning. I think I’m having a hard time seeing nodes in the context of a trackless NLE with a magnetic timeline. ?

[Richard Herd] ”
But also think of additional parameters in the composite that are not actually doing the compositing algorithms — scale, position, rotation, opacity etc.

This means we have some kind of widget interface (usually on the track layer) to set keyframes and move it. Out all those keyframes and parameters.”

That’s one of the advantages of the layer/track paradigm though, isn’t it? Multiple keyframes are much easier to see and manipulate in the context of a timeline compared to a node tree. It seems like they’re usually separate modes in 3D and VFX software; the graph/timeline view is for manipulating temporal parameters, while the node view is for non-temporal stuff like composite operations and expressions… usually. ?

[Richard Herd] “Why not have a widget for stack order?.”

Isn’t that what an NLE already does though? 15 graphics stacked over a video clip already has a stack order, the relationships between them is intrinsic – in a node based paradigm, you have to explicitly create those relationships. That’s why I asked what problem we’re trying to solve.

[Richard Herd] “This goes back a bit, but I really liked Apple Color, for example; and also, I prefer the Cinema 4D Xpresso compared to AE’s JavaScript Expression.”

I like C4D’s node based expressions too – though, I do wish we had access to the code behind the nodes sometimes. It would be nice if you could just double tap on a node and change certain parameters by typing instead of having to click on a parameters page, find the thing you want, then click to change it by typing. I also think JavaScript based expressions are easier to share.

Shawn

[Richard Herd]

[Shawn Miller] “Actually, I would like to see what you’re envisioning.”

I guess it’s more akin to an adjustment layer (thinking track mattes) that could “point” (node) to particular clip. X is powerful enough database that the Node could point to Roles, not just stacked clips. Track mattes, green screen keys, etc. might be useful. But I’ll continue to stack them 🙂

[Don Cobble]

[But they couldn’t work the same as it would screw up compositing order.]

I was not so much wanting to randomly shift the lanes all around as much as work in a group of clips that are a layer above the next group of clips below that are independent of each other. It may be my deficient knowledge of FCP but you get a couple hundred clips each being connected to another and then want to change a particular group them, that are not inter connected with each-other, it seems like you have do a lot of manual fixing to adjust. I do 7 camera Multicam (1hour program) with a lot of Pic in Pic. Lot of manual labor getting it all correct. It may just be in my mind but it is easier to handle all that in tracks or (fixed Lanes) maybe we will see Fixed Lanes!