Kona LS and FCP black level

[Dave Beaty]

I am having a similar problem with Kona LH 1.1.6

I called TS and explained the problem but I was told there is no know problem with black levels and they should function as set in the control panel. It was confusing me as well. Sometimes I was seeing 7.5 blacks, other time no.

It would be simpler if black level is simply passed through as captured without the added control.

I did find that changing the setting from 0 to 7.5 in the control panel did not work unless FCP is not running. Also, it could be possible the set up is only applied to output and not input. To avoid adding setup twice?

I have an external scope, and it does seem to change the output to correct values when pass through is selected in the control panel and it’s toggled between 0 and 7.5. I am using analog component and Kbox.

Note that SDI and Firewire don’t normally have 7.5 setup.

Dave Beaty

Dave Beaty
Dreamtime Entertainment
3613 Del Prado Blvd.
Suite 202
Cape Coral FL 33904
239-549-4081
800-446-7575
dave@dreamtimeentertainment.com
http://www.dreamtimeentertainment.com

[Walter Biscardi]

[David Achilles] “I am trying to isolate a problem I am having with black levels. I am using the Kona LS card (with the control panel set to 7.5 ire) and FCP 5. Is there any conversion that FCP or Kona is doing that would take black levels that should be 7.5 and make them 0 during encoding?”

I’m pretty sure that 7.5 set-up is for the output of the Kona, not the input. I don’t think any setup is added to a digitized image, nor would I ever want there to be.

If it’s an analog source you’re capturing from, like Beta SP, then you can use an on-board TBC to the deck to make adjustments as the signal comes in. If you’re capturing from a Digital source, such as DigiBeta via SDI, then you have no control over the incoming signal as it’s just a digital transfer. You need to use the Color Correction tools within FCP to correct the colors after capture.

The Levels filter is outstanding for controlling blacks.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Director, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com

Now Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[David Achilles]

So if I encoded at 0 black, would the KONA card make it 7.5 on the export to tape?

[Walter Biscardi]

[David Achilles] ”
So if I encoded at 0 black, would the KONA card make it 7.5 on the export to tape?”

It will lift everything to no lower than 7.5. BUT you should never color correct this way and rely on the hardware to make everything perfect for you.

I actually use 0 for my output on the Kona 2 so I can ensure that everything is set correctly in the timeline, using the color correction tools, not by using the hardware to lift the levels for me.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Director, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com

Now Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Gary Adcock]

[David Achilles] “So if I encoded at 0 black, would the KONA card make it 7.5 on the export to tape?”

correct
but only when outputting over the analog connections – the digital output will always be a 0.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[Dave Beaty]

This is a little confusing.

I have not checked this, but I am using BetaSP…7.5 IRE black levels.
If I digitize it and edit it in FCPro, then output via KONA with the control panel set to 7.5, will it actually output 15 IRE blacks?

I hope not.

But it’s worth looking into for sure.

Dave

Dave Beaty
Dreamtime Entertainment
3613 Del Prado Blvd.
Suite 202
Cape Coral FL 33904
239-549-4081
800-446-7575
dave@dreamtimeentertainment.com
http://www.dreamtimeentertainment.com

[David Achilles]

Yesterday I attached an analog waveform monitor to the analog output of my AJA Kona LS card (using FCP 5). The control panel was set to 7.5 ire. It was outputting at 15! We changed the control panel to ‘0’ and all the levels looked good. Finally an end to my brain damage.

[Tony]

The way it is suppose to work is an analog source with setup on it will have the setup stripped off when it is digitized.

But upon output to analog setup is added.

The problem you seem to have been having was double setup was being added on output.

Tony Salgado

[Dave Beaty]

I’m revisting this topic because there is an issue here specifically with the PhotoJPEG codec.

The problem is this: If I set the Kona to 7.5 Setup in the control panel and digitize into FCPro 5, while monitoring the digitizing and output preview, everything is fine.

The scopes in FCPro show that the set up is being removed and blacks are now at 0 IRE.

But when I play back the clip and look at it on the analog outputs, it’s not the same as what I digitized. The blacks are crushed. Yes, they are 7.5 IRE, but now the same clip that was fine going in, looks muddy and dark.

I wish someone else could confirm this effect I’m seeing with some external scopes. Using the uncompressed codec does not have this same problem.

Also, when stopping on a frame in FCP the black level changes in the Viewer when going from still to playing the clip.

Dave Beaty

Dave Beaty
Dreamtime Entertainment
3613 Del Prado Blvd.
Suite 202
Cape Coral FL 33904
239-549-4081
800-446-7575
dave@dreamtimeentertainment.com
http://www.dreamtimeentertainment.com

[Dave Beaty]

I just installed Kona LH software version 1.2

First test show that this problem may have been fixed with the intro of the included pro-amp and unity gain reset.

The first clips I’ve been capturing appear to have the same setup as when digitized.

Time will tell, but it’s a good omen.

Dave Beaty