Kona 3 vs. MXO2 for down / cross conversion

[Dan Riley]

Is that new box being delivered?
I hadn’t heard it was on the street yet.

As for downconverting an HD sequence in real time to SD centercut to DigiBeta,
I couldn’t be happier. It looks great here. But I haven’t done ANY letterbox
outputs. Is that where you see most of the issues?

Dan

[Walter Biscardi]

[Tim McLaughlin] “I’m becoming increasingly unhappy with the ringing / artifacting coming on the downconversion of my Kona3… “

Haven’t seen anything like this here on HD originated material.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Aaron Neitz]

I think what Tim is seeing are mild “ghosty” lines/artifacts that appear around especially contrasty and hard edges(i.e. Graphics and text). I see them too.

[Gary Adcock]

[Aaron Neitz] “I think what Tim is seeing are mild “ghosty” lines/artifacts that appear around especially contrasty and hard edges(i.e. Graphics and text). I see them too.
“

Yes you may, that means your graphics were not built correctly for SD.

Hence the reason most broadcasters prefer that you create graphics separately for HD and SD deliverables and IMHO the reason for creating generic masters so that the video can be converted separately from the graphics which almost never survive the conversion process correctly.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD

[Walter Biscardi]

[gary adcock] “Yes you may, that means your graphics were not built correctly for SD.

Hence the reason most broadcasters prefer that you create graphics separately for HD and SD deliverables and IMHO the reason for creating generic masters so that the video can be converted separately from the graphics which almost never survive the conversion process correctly. “

Yep, for SD shows that are heavily influenced with graphics, your best bet is to create a separate set of graphics for the SD show. Your graphics are being reduced in size 2 to 4x so as they get smaller, you get all sorts of jaggies. If they are created in the correct size / proportion in an SD frame to begin with, they are full size and clean.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Mitch Ives]

[gary adcock] “Yes you may, that means your graphics were not built correctly for SD. “

Good call Gary. When I do this, I down convert first, then add the graphics made for SD… it’s the only way I’m happy. Personally, I don’t think this is a K3 problem, I think that you’re going to want to do it that way no matter what hardware you use…

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

[Rich Rubasch]

In defense of Tim, we have been struggling with downconverting ProRes 1080i material letterbox. Almost looks like a single field. On playback from the timeline the output looks clean…as soon as we edit to tape to a 5100a DVCAM it gets ratty at any diagonal lines in the footage. DVCProHD has been a better codec overall with less “surprises”, but so far we have not had the degree of reliability and stability that we have experienced with our SD Aurora Pipe systems. Just oddball issues along the way in a perfectly configured system.

Most of what we have seen was with either 10-bit or 8-bit proRes material in 1080i 24p and 720 60p.

We have troubleshooted the heck out of it and Kona will be getting a call tomorrow, but we wanted to check all possibilities…it’s very befuddling.

Regardless what you other guys say, Tim has an issue and Kona has somewhat admitted to a letterbox downconvert issue.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media

[Walter Biscardi]

[Rich Rubasch] “In defense of Tim, we have been struggling with downconverting ProRes 1080i material letterbox. Almost looks like a single field. On playback from the timeline the output looks clean…as soon as we edit to tape to a 5100a DVCAM it gets ratty at any diagonal lines in the footage. DVCProHD has been a better codec overall with less “surprises”,”

I just have not been impressed with ProRes at all quite honestly. DVCPro HD is still a much more solid codec to work with both in FCP and in Color.

I have not seen any sorts of issues downconverting DVCPro HD in either 1080i or 720p.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Christopher S. johnson]

Walter, can you tell us about your disappointments with ProRes? I am advocating it to many producers I meet. From feature docs for the big screen to television. Even budget feature films, without ever going to uncompressed.

Also, have you ever seen an example of a difference in quality between the regular and the HQ version that is perceptible?

Thanks for the info.

[Walter Biscardi]

[Christopher S. Johnson] “Walter, can you tell us about your disappointments with ProRes?”

Bad Renders from time to time. Weird artifacting sometimes from Color Renders. Just enough issues that I don’t deal with it right now in HD, just small SD projects.

[Christopher S. Johnson] “Also, have you ever seen an example of a difference in quality between the regular and the HQ version that is perceptible?
“

Nope, but then we don’t use it much.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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