Kona 3 and Sony DSR-45 VTR

[David Smith]

Shari,

Please provide more information as to the settings you’ve chosen both in FCP and in the Kona Control Panel, then folks will have a better chance of helping you.

On a whim, look under the FCP View Menu and see what is selected under External Video. FCP has a habit of turning external video to “Off” when settings are changed.

[Shari225]

Thanks for your response. Here are the settings:

Kona Control Panel
Inputs: SDI 1 (no video) Input Select: AES/EBU (BNC), Map Channels: 1-2 to 1-2
Format: 525i29.97 (both primary and secondary) Conversion Up-Anamorphic Down – Letterbox SD to SD – off
Digital Out: Both outputs primary 525i29.97
Analog Out: Primary 525i29.97 Analog format: Component (SMTE/EBU N10 Monitor Audio: Ch 1-2
Default Kona Output: Test Pattern Test Pattern: Color Bars
Genlock: Freerun
DS Keyer: Kownstream Keyer Mode Off Graphic File: Load File Matte Color: grey
Setup: Video 7.5 IRE Audio Lock Input Audio Gain to Unity checked Analog Audio Monitor Level +24 dBu FSD

FCP
View > External Video: All frames
Audio/Video Settings
Sequence Preset: DV NTSC 48 kHz
Capture Preset DV NTSC 48 kHz
Device Control Preset: FireWire NTSC
Video Playback AJA Kona 720p60 RGBA (1280 x 720)
Audio Playback: AJA Kona

(I’ve since recabled the audio playback to run from my Mac to a receiver via optical cable to the speakers, using the receiver’s headphone jack at the output. Not optimum, but at least I can control the sound level. FCP is on built-in Digital Output with this configuration.)

Also, I’m concerned about synching, and wonder if I need a device to secure Genlock.

Thank you,
Shari

[Bob Zelin]

Shari –
you should not be doing this by yourself. I will answer what I can –

but right now all I’m working in is SD. I cannot figure out how to connect the breakout bar to my Sony DSR-45 VTR, nor am I getting the little Aquos EDTV monitor to get the signal from Final Cut Pro using the Kona 3 configurations.

REPLY – you should have purchased an AJA I/O or Kona LH, not a Kona 3. There is no analog component input to the AJA Kona 3, so you cannot get the DSR-45 into this Kona 3 board, unless you use Firewire, which is silly. You could buy a AJA Analog to SDI converter, but this would cost you as much as an AJA I/O LA box (which is what you should have bought in the first place). You get your Aquos HD monitor to see the signal from the Kona 3 by taking the Out Y Out Pb Out Pr of your AJA K box, and sending it into the analog HD component inputs of your Aquos. You then open up the Kona Control Panel (I hope you know what I am talking about), and go to the analog tab, and tell it to downconvert to 525, and you will see your SD image. For now, just for testing, choose an SD easy setup (like 8 bit SD uncompressed, not HD), and select COLOR BARS, and you will see the bar image on your TV monitor.

(I used a DeckLink Pro on a G5 before this, and all was well.) Working with Kona 3, while potentially is a dream come true, right now is very frustrating, and I’ve been down a week now. When I do go into FCP, I’m getting a “general error” alert, but all seems well. FCP can read the VTR for Log and Capture, but nothng shows on the TV monitor except color bars. The computer displays are showing everything as usual.

REPLY – when you say that FCP can read the VTR for Log and Capture – I have no idea of how you are doing this – are you using DV25? The Kona 3 cannot accept an analog component image, but if you capture in DV25, and then select another type of SD output for the Kona 3 with the EASY SETUPS, it will convert this to output the correct signals thru the Kona 3. If you don’t know what I am talking about, you need assistance from your sales company.

Here is the hook up so far:
With the Kona 3 –
Kona 3 correctly installed in the Mac (slot 3 and upgraded the driver)
Break-out bar cabled to card via the Mac – both with DB cable and SDI.
Three BNC component cables (RGB) going from break-out bar analog component outputs for monitor to a little Aquos EDTV
L & R Mackie HR 824 speakers hooked up via RCA plugs to breaker-bar RCA inputs. (I can’t control the volume except in iTunes, otherwise it’s very loud!)

REPLY – you need a MIXER !!!!!! You are not going to adjust these levels via software.

Bob Zelin

[Shari225]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for your reply. Believe me, I absolutely do not want to do this alone. I’m in an area, however, where this kind of help is very, very scarce, and those that can help are already swamped with work. I have tried, and would love for someone to come over and help. Creative Cow and people like you are Godsends. I got the Kona 3 with the intent to upgrade gradually. I read that the Kona 3 worked with both SP and HD, so that seemed – at the time – to be a reasonable expense to make.
I have a mixer. A little Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro – 4 XLR outlets. I use it sometimes when I use a shotgun mic on my GL2. It never occured to me to use it on my computer, but of course that’s the answer. Thanks for that.
I am somewhat familiar with the Kona 3 control panel, but not enough to set things up readily. With your help, I should have a better handle on that soon.
The DSR -45 is connected to the Mac via firewire, so maybe that’s why I can read the VTR on FCP Log & Capture.
I had already hooked up the Out Y Out Pb Out Pr BNC component cables directly to the Aquos Monitor – perhaps I didn’t explain that well in my first email. On the analog tab in the Kona controls, I have the primary at 525, and the analog format at component (RGB). Still no picture on the Aquos. The Mac is not detecting the dispay.
The General Error alarm is gone – I don’t know why, but I’m grateful.
On the other hand, while I am getting sound on my Mac, FCP is not running the video right now. Nothing is moving on the canvas. Sigh. A new wrinkle.
On the Format for the Kona 3 contol Panel there is an SD to SD option, which I have as off. Is that correct?
This all has to work. Somehow.
Thanks,
Shari

[Bob Zelin]

Replies below –

I read that the Kona 3 worked with both SP and HD, so that seemed – at the time – to be a reasonable expense to make.

REPLY – the Kona 3 will output analog component, but it will not INPUT analog component or composite – only SDI, and you dont’ have an SDI source.

I have a mixer. A little Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro – 4 XLR outlets. I use it sometimes when I use a shotgun mic on my GL2. It never occured to me to use it on my computer, but of course that’s the answer.

REPLY – you MUST go into the 1/4″ line inputs, not the XLR inputs. Your speakers get hooked to the CR Mon Outputs (control room monitor) on the back of the mixer.

I am somewhat familiar with the Kona 3 control panel, but not enough to set things up readily. With your help, I should have a better handle on that soon.

REPLY – forget FCP.. Open the Kona control panel, click on the control tab, and select a color bar test pattern. If you can’t get a picture on your TV now, you have a problem with the TV. You want Beta Component output Y Pb Pr, not RGB.

DO NOT PROCEED until you can get a color bar signal onto your TV monitor. Until you do, from the control panel test pattern, you are wasting your time. Once this works, you can go into FCP, and select an easy setup for 525, but you will have to use the Kona Control panel to output to your analog TV. AGAIN, you should have purchased a Kona LH or AJA I/O box.

This all has to work. Somehow.

REPLY – I don’t know where you bought this, but most times, people HIRE SOMEONE – just like when you want a new toilet – you don’t do it yourself – you hire a plumber – when you dont, you get water on the floor (and more than that !).

Bob ZElin

[Shari225]

I would have loved to hire someone, had I known this was necessary. It was not with the DeckLink Pro. I had no trouble hooking it up. If you advise it, I will be happy to get that Sony HVR-1500 HDV VTR when it comes out in the spring, and/or hire you to help me build a decent set up. But it’s right now that I need your help as you can give it. I set myself up for a domino effect, which, while wasn’t my intent, seems to be what is happening.

I do get a color bar signal on the monitor, I’m delighted to say. I don’t know why the video on FCP canvas isn’t working. I have the Sequence and Capture presets as well as the Vieo Playback on AJA Kona 525 8 bit.

Thank you,
Shari

[Don Wilson]

Who sells this stuff and offers no insight to the final use? This is a diaster waiting to happen with perfectly good gear. As Bob stated, you HAVE to get something to convert analog component (Out of the DSR) to SDI for input. I use my good ol’ trusty Io but you need something cheaper and it’s out there. Search for component to SDI converter and you’ll find several. Print out the operators manual included in the driver package and it will help you understand some of this stuff. Trust us, it works great but you really didn’t buy a transition system, you bought an HD Porsche and now must learn to drive stick.

Don Wilson
AmericanaMediaInc.com

[Shari D]

It looks like Flying Cow might work. It is relatively cheap. I’d like your opinion on it. Is it a good choice for a DSR to SDI converter?
The company I got the Kona 3 from is Markertek. Considering the expense of the card, I was trying to find the lowest price. I carefully read the requirements, and was able to meet them . . . I thought. I didn’t know I had to worry about the analog/digital interface.
I’m up to learning how to drive an HD Prosche, with help.
Thanks,
Shari

[Shari225]

It looks like Flying Cow might work. It is relatively cheap. I’d like your opinion on it. Is it a good choice for a DSR to SDI converter?
The company I got the Kona 3 from is Markertek. Considering the expense of the card, I was trying to find the lowest price. I carefully read the requirements, and was able to meet them . . . I thought. I didn’t know I had to worry about the analog/digital interface.
I’m up to learning how to drive an HD Prosche, with help.
Thanks,
Shari

[Bob Zelin]

You write –

It was not with the DeckLink Pro. I had no trouble hooking it up.

I do get a color bar signal on the monitor, I’m delighted to say. I don’t know why the video on FCP canvas isn’t working. I have the Sequence and Capture presets as well as the Vieo Playback on AJA Kona 525 8 bit.

REPLY – The DeckLink Pro has SDI inputs only, just like the Kona 3 – and no analog component video input for your DSR-45. The Decklink Pro is the WRONG BOARD to use, (you need the Decklink Extreme)- and the Kona 3 was the wrong product for you to buy – you should have purchased an AJA I/O LA, I/O or Kona LH, not the Kona 3, for your application.

You are able to get a color bar signal onto your monitor with the control panel, but I can’t even have you simply pass your DSR-45 thru the Kona Control panel, becuase you dont’ have an SDI output on the DSR-45. And you could not do this on the Blackmagic Decklink Pro, because it TOO does not have an analog component input.

We can sit here all day and talk about what you can do, and you certainly can output a DV signal out of the Kona 3, but I URGE YOU to scrounge up some money and buy a product that corresponds to your tape machines. A reputable dealer would be happy to exchange your Kona 3 for something else.

The AJA I/O LA will suit your needs perfectly, and costs under $1000. the Blackmagic Decklink Extreme is only $895. And as Don has said, a converter, like the AJA HD10AVA (about $950) will convert your analog component DSR-45 with analog audio into a SDI signal with embedded audio that you can get into your Kona 3 – if you choose to do so.

Once you capture your material (as DV25 using firewire – what a shame), you can go into the Audio/Video settings, and change the playback output tab so it comes out of the Kona.

what is happening here, is that you are unfamiliar with the use of this product – perhaps you mail ordered it – and someone needs to sit with you to show you how to use it. OR you can sit there patiently, go into the Audio/Video Settings menu (provided you have loaded the Kona drivers from your CD or AJA web site), and screw around with all the settings – you will eventually figure out what ones work and what ones don’t. The reason this will seem overwhelming for you is that you are dealing with a SDI/HD-SDI product, and want to use it as an analog product, with analog equipment. Becuase of this, it seems very confusing. If you get the audio/video settings playback output correct, and the AJA Kona Control panel correct – you will get your video output.

If you are saying “you know, I should have just bought the Blackmagic product” – if you bought a SDI/HD-SDI product from them, you would suffer the same way, unless you bought the Blackmagic Decklink Extreme – which properly handles analog signals – just like the Kona LH.

Bob Zelin