Kona 2 setting for HDTV 720/25p????

[Itamar Kool]

This is really making me nervous. I got a reply from Rudy van Koll from AJA who is really great. Has been great for me before. He gave me what seemed to be a very proper response. Only the end made me nervous again. It seems that I can make a set up for capturing in HDTV 720, 25 frs, but there is one setback: PLAYBACK IS IN 59,94!!! Now what good is capturing in 25 frames per second (having shot also in 25 frames per second) and then having playback in 59,94 fps????? I get the feeling that my cameraman was right when he said that the whole HDTV set up was meant for the NTSC world and that they completely forgot about PAL land. If he’s right that would really piss me off because I have already invested a lot of money in this production and now also in the hard ware

Kool En De Anderen
dual 1.8 gig G5/Mac OS 10.3.9/Kona SD/FCP 5/AE 6.5 Pro
http://www.koolendeanderen.nl

[Itamar Kool]

Disregard all my posts. I was too nervous. Rudy came back with the right answers. As alway

Kool En De Anderen
dual 1.8 gig G5/Mac OS 10.3.9/Kona SD/FCP 5/AE 6.5 Pro
http://www.koolendeanderen.nl

[Gary Adcock]

[Itamar Kool] ” I was sort of shocked not to find a Kona 2 setting for DVCPRO HD 720 in 25p. I did find this setting on my Blackmagic driver that I use for my Kona SD. Which means that the setting is possible.”

Itamar, HD and SD are very different in the scheme of things and just because there are available settings for 25fps in SD does not mean that the Varicam / FCP combo directly supports the HD PAL specs.
The issue is in how the Varicam records to tape and not with FCP (this time) The Varicam bases it’s capture speed on a 24 frame time base (even though it lays 60fps to tape) and you will need to use the older 24fps-25fps workflows in place for film to achieve this. Go back and read in the posts by me in both the Kona and Varicam Forums in the last 30 days for a more complete explanation.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation

[Itamar Kool]

Hi Gary, thanks for reacting. Well in the meantime I can be more specific. The setting I was referring to was a Varicam HDTV uncompressed 10 bit setting in 25 fps. Thing is that my cameraman shot this film in 25p. So we can’t go back to 24. Also Rudy from AJA mailed to me that I can create a setting with the Kona 2 that will work like the Blackmagic setting. He told me that the Kona 2 will extract the 25 active frames which I can then use in a 25fps timeline. Which is exactly what I want. I also read in the FAQ section of the Kona 2 on the AJA website that the Kona 2 will sort of throw away the duplicate frames as long as you capture with the same frame rate that you have used while shooting. My cameraman has been waiting for this kind of answer for two month now and we are still not completely sure about it, since I’m still waiting for my Kona 2.

Kool En De Anderen
dual 1.8 gig G5/Mac OS 10.3.9/Kona SD/FCP 5/AE 6.5 Pro
http://www.koolendeanderen.nl

[Gary Adcock]

[Itamar Kool] ” Thing is that my cameraman shot this film in 25p. So we can’t go back to 24. Also Rudy from AJA mailed to me that I can create a setting with the Kona 2″

Itamar- The Varicam reads ALL off-speed footage (either over-cranked or under-cranked) always in reference to 24 frames, so even if you shoot 25fps the DVCPROHD Varicam settings in the Kona 2 it is going to treat the audio as offspeed as the Varicam references the audio on those 25fps tapes at 24fps. So all of the audio you capture at 25 fps will have the audio playing too fast.
This is the way the Varicam lays info to tape and not with FCP or the Kona board as I said. It has to do with the way the Frame Rate Conversion works based on the Hardware device’s capture capability.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation

[Itamar Kool]

Hi Gary, Thanks again. If I understand you properly, it means that the Kona 2 will do what Rudy said it would do with the video. Only the audio would not be captured properly. Since we already shot the film in 25p we will have to capture it that way too; isn’t that right?? Because otherwise we would loose active frames and there would be some hicks in moving shots. That would mean that we would have to capture video and audio seperately. Or am I talking bullshit here???

Kool En De Anderen
dual 1.8 gig G5/Mac OS 10.3.9/Kona SD/FCP 5/AE 6.5 Pro
http://www.koolendeanderen.nl

[Gary Adcock]

[Itamar Kool] “Hi Gary, Thanks again. If I understand you properly, it means that the Kona 2 will do what Rudy said it would do with the video. Only the audio would not be captured properly. Since we already shot the film in 25p we will have to capture it that way too; isn’t that right??”

The card will work as rudy says it does but you do not understand the prob

OK one more time.
You may have shot the Varicam footage at 25 fps but is NOT on tape at 25fps.
The Varicam records ALL content at 60p.
The Varicam records all footage not shot at 24p( 23.98) or 60p (59.94) to be played back at 24p just like film. this affects your workflow. It was built this way for a reason- so that it can mimic a film camera not video. it never actually records just the 25fps frames.

Once again this is NOT an issue the Kona 2 but How PAL is handled in HD currently on the Varicam.

if you want further discussion stop by the AJA booth during IBC.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation

[Itamar Kool]

Hi Gary, I don’t want to be a pain in the ass. But I do NOT really undertand. I know that the Varicam actually records 60 frames per second on tape. That was clear to me all the time.
I know that when you shoot at 25p the Varicam records 25 different (active) frames onto tape and 35 socalled duplicates. I dont want the duplicates. They are of no use to me. So I extract the 25 ‘good’ frames per second from the tape when I capture with the Kona 2 card and edit the whole thing in uncompressed HDTV 720 in 25 frames per second. Until now I believe, everything is smooth. Now, as I understand from you, the audio will not play properly this way. So I am wondering and thinking about a way to get the audio into FCP and link it to the video.
I will certainly come to visit and talk to you at the IBC. Thanks for the invitation!

Kool En De Anderen
dual 1.8 gig G5/Mac OS 10.3.9/Kona SD/FCP 5/AE 6.5 Pro
http://www.koolendeanderen.nl