Keeping options open between Vegas and FCPX

[Mike Kujbida]

My suggestion is to install the Avid Codec 2.3.7 on both the Mac and PC and transcode your AVCHD footage to Avid DNxHD which both NLEs will understand, read and render.
As always, a short test is strongly recommended.

[John Kirkilis]

Thanks. I tried to install the 2.3.2 version yesterday and it failed. I’ll try 2.3.7.

So, if I transcode to DNxHD, split the media manually in the Vegas timeline, and render these “sub-clips” individually into their own files in DNxHD, will Vegas’ smart-render kick in and not try to recompress the media?

I’d answer my own question now, but I’m away from my computer.

John

[Mike Kujbida]

Since you’re rendering to another format, Vegas will not smart render 🙁
Once you’re in that format though, all subsequent renders to the identical settings should be very quick.

[John Kirkilis]

Supposedly, FCPX takes the original AVCHD footage and rewraps it with a Quicktime container, leaving the H.264 intact. Since FCPX cleanly rejoined the 2GB segments produced by the camera, is there any reason I shouldn’t use these mov files? Recall that Vegas will not correctly join the 2GB mts file segments when I place them contiguously in the timeline. Vegas does not seem to care about the meta data in the AVCHD directories archived from the memory cards, since it doesn’t enable the “OK” button until I’ve selected an mts file in the Streams directory.

[John Kirkilis]

Here’s some info on a sample mts file from my camera:

From Videospec:

*** General Parameters ***
– Name: 00006.MTS
– Container: Mpeg Transport Stream
– Size: 1.084 GB
– Duration: 6mn 29s
– Bitrate: 22.2 Mbps

*** Video Track Parameters ***
– Format: H.264/MPEG-4 AVC
– Bitrate: Max.: 22.0 Mbps / Average: 21.1 Mbps / Min.: Undefined
– Frame rate (fps): Max.: Undefined / Average: 23.976 / Min.: Undefined
– Encoding profile: High@L4.0
– Image size: 1920*1080
– Pixel Aspect Ratio: Undefined
– Display Aspect Ratio: 16:9
– Interlacing: Progressive

*** First Audio Track Parameters ***
– Format: AC3-A52
– Bitrate: 256 Kbps
– Resolution: 16 bits
– Rate: 48.0 KHz
– Channel(s): 2 (stereo)
– Position: Front: L R

From Media Info:

General
ID : 0 (0x0)
Complete name : /Volumes/Lili Primary/AVCHD AX2000 Raw/Lili Interview 3 and Mary/AVCHD/BDMV/STREAM/00006.MTS
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 1.01 GiB
Duration : 6mn 29s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 22.2 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 24.0 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 6mn 29s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 21.1 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 22.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.423
Stream size : 978 MiB (95%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : 129
Duration : 6mn 29s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 11.9 MiB (1%)

When I go to create a custom Quicktime template in Vegas for the DNxHD codec, I’m given several attributes that I’m not quite sure how they should be set for this joint use of footage between FCPX and Vegas such as:

Color Levels: 709 or RGB Levels
Alpha: None, Compressed, Uncompressed
Resolutions: (there are many choices. I can decipher the 720 vs. 1080, progressive vs. interlaced, framerate, and bit-depth, but there’s another number without any prefix or suffix, which might be the bitrate, but I’m not sure.

I’ve attempted to attach a screenshot to this post:

[Mike Kujbida]

“Supposedly, FCPX takes the original AVCHD footage and rewraps it with a Quicktime container, leaving the H.264 intact. Since FCPX cleanly rejoined the 2GB segments produced by the camera, is there any reason I shouldn’t use these mov files?”

Vegas can’t render out true H.264 files so if all you want to do is import them, go right ahead.

“Recall that Vegas will not correctly join the 2GB mts file segments when I place them contiguously in the timeline”

Have you tried using the software (Sony PMB?) that came with the camera to do this?

[Mike Kujbida]

“When I go to create a custom Quicktime template in Vegas for the DNxHD codec, I’m given several attributes that I’m not quite sure how they should be set for this joint use of footage between FCPX and Vegas such as:

Color Levels: 709 or RGB Levels
Alpha: None, Compressed, Uncompressed
Resolutions: (there are many choices. I can decipher the 720 vs. 1080, progressive vs. interlaced, framerate, and bit-depth, but there’s another number without any prefix or suffix, which might be the bitrate, but I’m not sure.”

Based on the response below that I found on another Vegas forum (I don’t use DNxHD so I had to go searching for answers), it looks like the answers to your questions are:
709color level;
Alpha – compressed;
8 bits at 145Mbps.

DNxHD is visually lossless, can deliver compressed or uncompressed Alpha, and proper REC 709 luminance is faithfully preserved in the round trip to Mac and back.
It compares favorably to ProRes 422 in all areas and has the advantage of being truly cross-platform.
Plus, DNxHD 8 bits at 145Mbps is about 1/8th the size of uncompressed, iirc.
10 bit, 220Mbps is also an option.

[John Kirkilis]

I don’t know about PMU, but for my camera, they refer to CMU, Content Management Utility, which I’ve downloaded and run before to handle the case when a clip spans memory card A and B in the camera. You’re absolutely right, I should run all of my archived AVCHD directories through that utility first before doing the transcode to DNxHD. If I run everything through Compressor to get to DNxHD, I wonder if Vegas will employ Smart Rendering logic for the raw footage splitting. I’m not sure I’ll be able to tell if Smart Rendering is being applied though.

I’ll experiment when I get home, but if you have any thoughts to offer, I’m all ears. Thanks for helping me negotiate this terrain.

[Mike Kujbida]

“I don’t know about PMU, but for my camera, they refer to CMU, Content Management Utility,…”

Same thing, different manufacturer, different utility name.

“I’m not sure I’ll be able to tell if Smart Rendering is being applied though.”

If you’re rendering to the exact same settings, your Preview window (Pro 10 screenshot) will look like this.

[John Kirkilis]

I’ve got few bugs to flush out before I give these settings a try… literally. I came home to discover a bunch of tiny ants crawling on my laptop. Some seemed to be coming out of one of the air vents of my MBP. I’ve seen ants destroy less expensive electronic devices. I powered everything down and moved my gear to a white surface where it would be easier to see the little buggers. I should probably open the laptop and take a peek inside just in case.

I’m reading up on some DNxHD white papers on Avid’s site at the moment. If my setup can handle the bandwidth, is there a benefit to going with the 10-bit 220x option if we’re only dealing with a rough cut for the foreseeable future?

Also, have Vegas’ export capabilities improved in the last few versions that would allow us to hand off a rough cut to a real pro for color grading, etc. using their own tools?

John