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Judder on HDCAM output???
Hello,
I hope this letter finds everyone well. I shot a film on the HVX200. I shot it at 1080i/24p and recorded on a FIRESTORE FS100. The project came into my avid system at 1080i/29.97. The project looked fine, no weird judders or motion problems while editing on my computer screen. (essentially Firestore creates the extra frames to edit on 29.97 so it is not true 23.97). Either way, no judders.
I then exported the edited tilm to a QUICKTIME (DXnHD) file for an output that was then taken to a professional dubbing house to HDCAM tape output. When the file was brought in to FINAL CUT pro (at the dubbing house), it looked perfectly fine on the computer. Just like it did in AVID. When we are trying to lay down the movie to tape, there is a strong judder when the actors move. It does not appear on the computer monitor on playback, but it does appear on the actual HD monitor as it will on HDCAM tape.
What are we doing wrong? Why does it look okay on the computer monitors? but not on the actual tape or HD monitors? It is fine on the FCP computer screen, looks good on the AVID computer screen. But judders on the HD monitor in the tape room. Could this be a problem with the deck settings? or FCP output settings? Some FCP users mentioned they had problems with the AHA boards in the past? Could this be an issue? What should the correct FCP output settings? board settings and tape settings?
anyone ever have this issue?
Zack
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7 Replies
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Was pulldown ever removed for your 24P output? Which deck and what are the precise settings indicated in the bank?
Kevin Monahan
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author – Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro -
Thank you so much for the quick reponse. It is greatly appreciated. 🙂
Pulldown was not removed. Nor do i actually want it to be. It is captured at 23.97 recorded at 1080i/29.97. The Panasonic Camera captures 23.97 and records 29.97 on Firestore. The Firestore then adds frames and interlaces them, so the 24p effect is smooth. (TV show such as “hills” is captured, recoreded and edited in same mannerer). The entire piece should be kept at 29.97. I have edited on AVID and outputed to tape lay it down at 1080i/29.97 HD with no judder in the past. (same camera, same style edit)
The problems seems to be not a frame rate issue from AVID to FCP or any type of pulldown issue. The problem is from the FCP to actual tape. Unfortunetly, I am no longer at the Dub house. I was thinking it may be a 1080p (setting on the deck) or an issue with AHA.
not sure,
Zack -
Now that I read your original post, it seems that you have been editing without a broadcast reference monitor and only your computer monitor. So this problem could have happened from the get go. When you finally were able to see the true quality of the video, you could finally see its defects. Editing without a reference monitor is like flying blind IMHO.
I would look back at the original way the clips were handled. It sounds like something went wrong with your workflow from the beginning. It’s either that, or your transcode to DNxHD (not DXnHD, BTW) went wrong somehow.
As far as deck or output settings being wrong, you did your work at a pro dub house where things like AJA (not AHA by the way) control panel settings. deck bank settings and drives are usually never a problem. I doubt this could be the issue.
Of course, you probably know this but I think you got bitten by not testing your end to end workflow. Although not always practical, testing ingest to output with even a few clips is necessary with today’s HD post complexities.
Kevin Monahan
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author – Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro -
Hmmmmmmmm,
thanx again for the reponse,
I actually have outputed this entire film (feature) before (last year) on HDCAM from my AVID using HD monitor with no problems.
This particular project is a 3 minute clip from the same orginal film (the original files from the original external hard drive). I am using a dub house, simply because i don’t want to pay the money to rent a deck, for a 3 minute clip.
So the original footage is fine. the original edit (entire feature on AVID) is fine. Why the problem transferring to FCP and outputting to tape? Why the judder? Do you find when looking at footage on a FCP computer monitor that there is a great degree of motion difference between your computer and a HD Monitor? As a side note, this project took place toward the end of the day at the duplication house and the entire staff was not there. The editor himself is not sure what the problem is? Wondering if you or anyone has experienced a great shift of the images on FCP computer monitors and HD monitors? Thanks for the heads up on AJA as well 🙂 Been calling it AHA all day long – thought that Swedish band broke up a long time ago.
🙂
Zack -
OK, now we are getting somewhere. The more info the better, otherwise it’s just a “best guess” method. Monitoring is a really big issue as the FCP Canvas can play tricks on you, so that is always one of the first things I suspect.
So it has played out successfully from Avid. Awesome. Something happened between your DNxHD file > FCP > Deck.
First thing. Make sure the settings DNxHD file matches the desired output settings for FCP.
Ensure the proper Avid codecs are installed in FCP.
Check if the sequence settings of FCP and the clip settings of the DNxHD clip. See if they match precisely.
Play the file back in the FCP Timeline and check monitoring through the AJA card to a broadcast monitor. Does it playback smoothly? It should if all the settings match.
Check the drives to see that they are healthy and able to playback your DNxHD file easily in FCP.
If it was after hours and done by the editor (is he a strong FCP/tech guy?) and not the engineer, I suspect that the deck could have been set up wrong, the Edit To Tape function may have not been set up correctly, or the AJA control panel was not set up correctly.
The last thing I would ask is which output settings on the HDCAM deck are you using? 1080i 29.97? Does it match the FCP sequence settings and the AJA control panel? All crucial stuff.
Hope this helps.
IMHO, monitoring with a proper HD monitor is indeed important, but even with DV, most don’t do it. And most get bitten by confusion as to the “real quality” of your rendered output, color grading, graphics, titles, subtitles, interlace artifacts, etc.
Hated the band, but that video was pretty dang cool!
By the way, welcome to The Cow. 😉
Kevin Monahan
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author – Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro -
Thanx a ton,
Yeah 1080i 29.97 is set on both.
It may simply be an engineer situation (deck not set up, AJA etc.)
All of your other notes were extremely helpful. I will check with the editor regarding that their system has the same codecs etc.
Have a great weekend,
🙂
Z -
If you post back your solution, it would be greatly appreciated. It’s the reason why there are good people giving good answers here on the Cow.
Thanks so much and best of luck!
Kevin Monahan
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author – Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro
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