ISO universal codec

[Tim Kolb]

[Jeremy Garchow] “You can easily use P2CMS to modify the metadata.”

I believe the exported “clip names” show in the PPro media browser, which interprets P2 to the users as clips as opposed to folders of various component files with alpha numeric nonsense names.

I think anyone who appreciates metadata has to look at Adobe’s workflow pretty closely. The metadata that Apple handles now is the stuff that Adobe’s been working with/expanding on for years.

I still say that CineForm wavelet VBR is the closest to a truly universal codec being truly cross platform, Y’CbCr and RGB options, a RAW version of the codec, the most elegant stereo workflow available, FirstLight metadata interface for everything from color correction and LUT implementation to stereo alignment… It’s the closest thing available to an actual self-contained yet universally compatible standardized codec and universal workflow I’ve seen so far.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Tim Kolb] “I believe the exported “clip names” show in the PPro media browser, which interprets P2 to the users as clips as opposed to folders of various component files with alpha numeric nonsense names.
“

P2 has a ton of metadata stored in the XML files of the CLIPS folder. Even FCP7s Log and Transfer reads some of it. So does PPro, also some but not all of it.

I am not talking specific NLE metadata, I am talking about the metadata within the P2 file that will travel with the file, and not be stuck to an NLE project.

As far as Cineform, yeah it’s sweet, but someone will have to download/install a reader which doesn’t help Mr Cole. P2 (or other tapeless formats) usually require no download if the NLE is modern enough to accept the tapeless format. A lot of news/TV stations are standardizing around AVC-I.

[Tim Kolb]

[Jeremy Garchow] “I am not talking specific NLE metadata, I am talking about the metadata within the P2 file that will travel with the file, and not be stuck to an NLE project.”

XML is metadata that is read by other applications. It isn’t “NLE specific”…?

If you select the option to write the XML metadata out in Adobe Media Encoder, that metadata can be written in the file, next to the file, or you can still choose to not write it at all.

MXF metadata is like the MXF wrapper itself…it’s implementation isn’t consistent across all formats and manufacturers…reading any and all MXF metadata from P2 to XDcamHD is probably far from a standard process.

I’m not sure how the XML metadata stacks up field-for-field as when I’m outputting P2, it’s usually for some Avid house that has never seen 50 Mbit XDcamHD 422 before…or an FCP user who only uses P2 and is simply averse to anything else.

ProRes to P2 DVCProHD is a significant drop when you take the sub frame resolution into account. AVC-Intra would be a really good option, but if the Avid house Bob’s dealing with doesn’t have the capability to read ProRes…AVC-Intra may be a little “space-age” for them too.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Tim Kolb] “XML is metadata that is read by other applications. It isn’t “NLE specific”…?”

No, I am talking about the XML file present in every single P2 File:

[Tim Kolb] “MXF metadata is like the MXF wrapper itself…it’s implementation isn’t consistent across all formats and manufacturers…reading any and all MXF metadata from P2 to XDcamHD is probably far from a standard process.”

Panasonic has recommendations in order for it to be compatible across all platforms/P2 Devices.

[Tim Kolb] “AVC-Intra would be a really good option, but if the Avid house Bob’s dealing with doesn’t have the capability to read ProRes…AVC-Intra may be a little “space-age” for them too.”

I totally agree. DVCPro HD is an older format, hence a greater chance of success. As I mentioned, if they can accept P2 AVC-I, it’s a great option. By it’s very design, P2 is cross platform. I don’t know if the Adobe Media Encoder creates P2 qualified files. I know MXF4mac does, as does the free plugin from Panasonic.

Jeremy

[Tim Kolb]

Yeah…my question mark was meant to be my confusion after the statement “XML is not an NLE-specific metadata format.” Period…then my question mark indicating that I don’t get where you’re coming from on this…

I know where the XML file is in a P2 document and Media Encoder writes the XML file in the same place when it outputs the P2 media to a harddrive…or back to the P2 card to be played back on the camera itself…

Adobe has been doing this for 4 versions now. It’s not new or unproven.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor

[Jeremy Garchow]

Can it write/encode AVC-I files?

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Tim Kolb] “Period…then my question mark indicating that I don’t get where you’re coming from on this…”

I guess I am misunderstanding you.

My point, is that P2 qualified files are an awesome exchange format.

AVC-I is 100 or 50 mb/sec 10 bit.

DVCPro HD is 100mb/sec 8 bit.

You brought up something about the confusion of clip naming, I said you can use P2CMS to modify the metadata to give it a meaningful User Clip Name. If not, simply name the enclosed folder that stores the CONTENTS.

That’s all I’m saying.

[Tim Kolb]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Can it write/encode AVC-I files?”

Yes.

In CS5, the AVC-I importer had a bug where it truncated color precision to 8 bit, which is fixed in CS5.5…

Both CS5 and 5.5 could output AVC-I files in all flavors…

So CS5.5 is completely native AVC-I 10 bit in/out.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor

[Tim Kolb]

[Jeremy Garchow] “You brought up something about the confusion of clip naming, I said you can use P2CMS to modify the metadata to give it a meaningful User Clip Name. If not, simply name the enclosed folder that stores the CONTENTS.”

I mentioned the clip naming as to someone looking at the media who can’t read all the metadata, the clips will look like standard P2 clips as they’re written from Media Encoder.

I agree that P2 should be a very good exchange format, it’s just that manually changing all those names after the fact could be a pain…if the software you’re importing to doesn’t read the file names the same way PPro does. Each clip inside the CONTENTS folder still has it’s “P2 tribal name” right? (I’m not picking a fight here…I’m really asking…just so we’re clear.)

I know that P2 clip naming conventions are something that Panasonic has set up for the cameras and I’ve never seen a P2 clip that has a word name on the single media clip file in a browser…PPro sees the word name from its Media Browser as well as showing things like the audio and video clip as if it’s one.

However, since the whole conversation started regarding transferring media to another house that hasn’t updated their codecs recently enough to deal with ProRes…(and I’ve had a few of these guys myself so I’m feeling Bob’s pain)…I guess I hope they can deal with camera formatted associative data like P2 MXF files.

We agree that P2 files should be a good transferrable file.

I do like XDcamHD422 MXF files which are a bit more intuitive to use for someone who isn’t used to dealing with camera data formats that are multiple directories deep.

I can take pretty much anything anybody shoots and just run it…so this whole conversation is pretty theoretical for me…

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Tim Kolb] “I agree that P2 should be a very good exchange format, it’s just that manually changing all those names after the fact could be a pain…if the software you’re importing to doesn’t read the file names the same way PPro does. Each clip inside the CONTENTS folder still has it’s “P2 tribal name” right? (I’m not picking a fight here…I’m really asking…just so we’re clear.)”

Absolutely. But if the NLE understands P2, then there’s no reason to pick apart the contents. This is my point. If the NLE reads P2, you are good, if not, you are not good. If it’s a TV station with news, chances are they know what P2 is.

[Tim Kolb] “PPro sees the word name from its Media Browser as well as showing things like the audio and video clip as if it’s one. “

And so does every NLE that understands P2.

[Tim Kolb] “.I guess I hope they can deal with camera formatted associative data like P2 MXF files.”

DVCPro HD P2 has been around for a good long while. I would hope they would be at least this far in their technological purposes. Plus, if the NLE accepts P2, they don’t have to update QT, which they would have to do to get ProRes. From an IT standpoint, this started my thinking.