Is this a benefit of ProRes?

[Jerry Hofmann]

DVCPROHD is an 8 bit codec alright, but where you’d benefit is with graphics or stills not captured via video but CGI created. They would all be rendered in 10 bit. You’ll not improve the video per se, but will improve everything else you add to that ProRes Sequence, especially graphics/titles with gradients.

Jerry

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Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here

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[Jeremy Garchow]

[Ron Craig] “The specs for that camera say that the circuits record the image at 14 bits. But the specs also say that the videotape recorder is recording that data at 8 bits. “

Correct. That means the a/d process (taking the analog signal off of the chip and turning it to digital) processes at 14bits, then gets knocked down to 8 for tape compression.

[Ron Craig] “So if the tape is recorded at 8 bits, what benefit do I get out of capturing it to ProRes at 10 bits through Kona 3? “

All graphics and CC will get the benefit of 10 bit rendering, meaning less loss and smoother gradients. An overall ‘cleaner’ signal. It won’t benefit your footage too much (won’t hurt it either), it will benefit everything you do and add after it.

Jeremy

[Ron Craig]

Thanks, gents.

[David Roth weiss]

[Jerry Hofmann] “You’ll not improve the video per se, but will improve everything else you add to that ProRes Sequence, especially graphics/titles with gradients.”

Yes, that’s what I said, but I added that there would be less generational loss in the video, especially noise and banding in flat areas such as skies.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

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[Adam Taylor]

won’t those extra 2 bits also give you a little more latitude when you send the video through Color?

adam

Editor/Mixer
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

[Devin Crane]

Pro Rez is great but if you are capturing in DVCPro HD and Delivering in DVCPro HD you might as well stay in DVCPro HD you will not gain a thing going over to Pro Res other than render times and a little loss since you are having to do extra compressions. If you capture a native format and deliver on a native format better to stay that route you won’t gain a thing.

[Jerry Hofmann]

Um, not true completely… Graphics, photos, psd’s etc will all benefit from working in 10 bit sequences.

I don’t think that upconverting the DVCPROHD will improve the ability to grade it in Color though… the “damage” was done when you shot it in the first place.. not dissing the camera.. it’s great, but it’s only 8 bit, and you can’t add color information that wasn’t shot in the first place. You won’t hurt it either transcoding it to ProRes… course, the cost of this is disk space… ProRes is about twice the size file as DVCPROHD at the same frame rate.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D

[Devin Crane]

What are you gaining though if you are going to recompress it in 8 bit DVCPro HD again after you compressed it in Pro Rez? Is it really that big of a difference? Yes the graphics will look nicer in Pro Res but what about after compress it again in DVCPro HD?

If this was HDV I can see the point of it, but working in DVCPro HD thats a different story.

[Gary Adcock]

[Ron Craig] ” So if the tape is recorded at 8 bits, what benefit do I get out of capturing it to ProRes at 10 bits through Kona 3? The source material is what determines the picture resolution, color depth, etc., right? “

First off – ALL cameras record 8bit content internally on tape. A/D imagers in the cameras are designed to do only one thing – that is compress the Analog light data into the 8bit (256 levels of gray per color channel or about 66,000 unique colors at one time)

However, in Post – whether compositing or color correcting it is far more advantageous to be able to allow the data to move about in a slightly larger “working area” available in the vastly larger 10bit color space ( with 1024 levels of gray or 1,048,576 colors at one time)
so more data can be handled without sacrificing picture quality

So
do you want to work in a tight cramped space – or have the room to do all that you need to do.? Granted not everyone needs to work in 10bit. Working on a project with cuts only edit and no color correction for has no need to “HAVE” to work in 10bits, 8 is more than enough.

Many, many people are very happy with the 8bit DVCPROHD workflow, but if you are doing a fair amount of image processing in your projects – ProRes is the way to go.

FYI- I am finishing a pretty technical paper on ProRes that will be released after NAB- I think there are some things about ProRes everyone needs to know.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD

[Martin Baker]

If you’re outputting to a 10 bit format then it makes complete sense to me that you’re going to get finer control when grading etc. But what I’ve never been able to get my head around is how an 8bit/10bit/8bit workflow can provide the same advantage.

If you output at 8 bit, then the pixel values can only be what’s available. So wouldn’t all those smooth gradients you get at 10 bit get lost when crushed back into 8 bit? Or am I missing something fundamental here?

Martin
Digital Heaven, London UK
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