Is there any way to get LTC out from Final Cut

[Rafael Amador]

[David Roche] “The Horita guys seem to confirm that by saying that the LTC for their device actually comes from a VTR and not FCP.”
By definition, LTC only exist in tapes. Is the VTR who must generate the LTC matching the FC’s TC.
I think the only way to do that is with the AJA (via RS422) using their “AJA VTR Exchange Application”.
Make a search in this forum because the matter have been treated few times.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Alex Elkins]

I’m not an expert on this subject at all, but from what I’ve found the answer is yes. I’m assuming that the deck must support it also.

I recently came across a problem where we were using a different deck from normal, and it was getting confused with the timecodes. After hours of shouting at the computer I discovered that in the Audio/Video settings window under VTR settings you can edit the setting to output either LTC of VITC (or both) timecode. The problem I was having was that the deck wouldn’t read VITC properly.

I’m not sure whether this in any way answers your question but if it hints at an answer then get in touch and I’ll try to explain better the process I went through to sort the problem.

[David Roche]

Thanks for your input Rafael and Alex.

Alex, I think that what you’re talking about is input to FCP. I’m trying to get LTC out of it.

Rafael, while you’re correct about the definition of LTC, it’s not exclusive to tape machines. There are XLR connectors on Avid systems with LTC in and out. LTC is available any time the editor is actively playing a timeline and without checking (an error on my part) I assumed it would be available on FCP.

I’m having a hard time understanding why FCP generally handles timecode so poorly – it’s such a capable editor otherwise. It seems like a “duh” to me to have LTC out of an editor to interface with the rest of the world.

Surely somebody in large installations has tackled this problem before.

[Herb Sevush]

Alex –

You are correct in that you are not an expert on this subject and you are wrong in thinking Final Cut will generate any sort of timecode whatsoever that can be sent to any sort of external device.

As an Apple employee told me at NAB a few years ago the only way to output timecode is to get hold of an audio timecode track and lay it onto one of the audio tracks in your timeline – hook that sequence’s audio output to an external device’s timecode input and jam record. i will not go into all the reasons why this is not a practical idea.

This lack of a timecode output is one of the major shortcomings of Final Cut. apparently it will never be addressed until Quicktime itself is altered to handle timecode differently.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Rafael Amador]

You are right Herb. The think is that the TC in the QT files is nor LTC, neither VITC. Those works on tapes. The KONA do not output any TC through the HDI/SDI to the VTR. But if I’m not wrong with the KONA AJA Transfer Application, the FC TC can be routed through the RS-422. At least works in the other direction: With the Transfer Application now you can capture the TC through the HDI/SDI from the KONA. This was no possible before.
Maybe in the KONA forum you cold find the answer. Or post to Gary Adcock. he is really up to day about the KONA.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Michael Alberts]

Way back in FCP 1 and FCP 2 days we invested in the Aurora Igniter uncompressed SD cards for FCP. The breakout box had every audio and video patch you could ever want, including an LTC out port. That port worked great for outputting LTC timecode out of Premiere, but didn’t work when using FCP. Aurora engineers were always trying to figure out how to hack FCP and enable LTC out but were never successful. Finally, in a rev to the breakout box, they converted that port to an additional SDI out port and gave up on LTC out. Like I said, it worked in Premiere, and this was the year 2000. Fast forward eight years and we still don’t have LTC out of FCP regardless of hardware.

Michael Alberts
Ambidextrous Productions, Inc.
http://www.ambidextrous.net

[David Roche]

Thank you guys for all the input on the TC issue.

What I’ve learned in my research is that there is NO timecode present at any time in any output of FCP. How has this glaring omission gone on for so long without being addressed? Wow.

It seems that most users, who need timecode, pre-stripe a tape for insert editing or just assemble edit to get a timecoded master. Then they use the tape for anything that needs timecode. Wow, again.

So the burden of dealing with the lack of timecode output is placed on the user. If you have a tape machine handy that will deal with timecode, you’re in luck. Otherwise…

I would love for someone to tell me that I’m wrong!

[Herb Sevush]

David –

“I would love for someone to tell me that I’m wrong!”

I will tell you: no and yes.

No, you’re not wrong.
Yes, you’re screwed.

The Final Cut folks are aware that this situation sucks but there is (apparently) nothing that can be done until Apple fixes the data structure of Quicktime files – this is a huge proposition that affects a lot more than the small number of pro-apps users. I have heard that Quicktime will be re-written in the near future, more for iPhone issues than for our concerns, and that the problem may be fixable then. Time-frame? 2 years (or never.)

But don’t worry, by then we will all be in a tapeless workflow and the issue will be moot.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Paul Dickin]

[Herb Sevush] “…more for iPhone issues than for our concerns, But don’t worry, by then we will all be in a tapeless workflow and the issue will be moot.”
Hi
But the Pentagon will want all those GPS-stamped iPhone movies of the invasion of Iran to be time(code) stamped with something more reliable (ie media managable) than the Start Time + counter offset that QT currently allows….
Hell who knows WHEN Private Ryan switched his friggin’ iPhone camera on….

PS I’m a card carrying member of the ‘give QT VITC (now)’ movement. 🙂

[Rafael Amador]

[David Roche] “What I’ve learned in my research is that there is NO timecode present at any time in any output of FCP”
No really. Even when you export through FireWire you have TC. Is not LTC, neither VITC. is a proprietary format.
In tape gets recorded in the “Sub-code Area”. The same that LTC or VITC, this is a SMPTE TC, but do not get recorded in an audio-like track (like the LTC) neither in the very picture (like the VITC).
The question is how to route this TC that is embed in the video stream to the TC generator of the VTR.

When you stripe a tape, you are laying LTC and VITC. When you edit by Assemble you are overwriting all the tracks (Video, audio and TC), but the TC is overwrited by the same TC that is Re-generated by the desk.
If you edit the video by Insert, you are overwriting only the video track and with him the VITC. But the desk will insert a new VITC in the new picture, matching the pre-existing VITC and LTC.

You are right that AVID you can export TC through XLR. That is no much complicated. Their boxes have a TC generator and the necessary software to reference that TC generator with the TC embed in the clip file.
And clearly, the TC issue is one of the big Black-holes of FC.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com