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  • Is there a winner here between Canon and RED?

    Posted by Dennis Radeke on November 4, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    I’m just curious about people’s thoughts on the announcements from RED and Canon yesterday. Different tools but focused on the same type of customer I think.

    Based on the limited information out there, is there a clear winner?

    Dennis – Adobe guy

    Tim Wilson replied 12 years, 8 months ago 23 Members · 83 Replies
  • 83 Replies
  • Steve Connor

    November 4, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    The Canon looks great but we’ll be buying a Scarlet next year.

    “My Name is Steve and I’m an FCPX user”

  • Darren Kelly

    November 4, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    They are kinda both lost on me. $20K for the Canon according to the press release, and I would need glass as I am a Nikon SHooter. Canon has me gun shy these days because of the issues that have plagued their top of the line Pro DSLRs (Focus issues)

    Red, well When they announced the red one way way back, I wrote that it was snake oil. They were demoing a carved piece of wood at a trade show, making delivery promises that anyone could see wouldn’t happen. Then they released years after they promised – yes years.

    This camera was initially priced under $5K. Now, to get a package that works would be something close to $15K, or 3 times more. Will it ship in less than a month from now as promised. I’d doubt it. Can my editing system handle it – no, I don’t think so – Premiere Pro CS5.5.2 with lots of fast storage, but I wouldn’t bet it would be happy. How would I show the footage anyway. I don’t have the money for anything that could display 4K.

    I will buy a new camera in 2012, but I don’t think either of these two will be on my list.

  • Eduardo Serrano

    November 4, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Well, you know, numbera are great but it all gets down to image quality and being reliable and pratical.
    I really like red but they are kinda clunky and crashy. It’s no surprise that everyone and their brothers are using alexas. They are a good comprimise… having all the geeky quality doesn’t translate into good stories. I see people siregarding even the raw part of alexa.

    I guess we need to wait for the tests to begin with and then make our own conclusions.

  • Mark Dobson

    November 4, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    I would love to buy both of them. However They are both out of my price range.

    By the time one has kitted these cameras out they will both cost considerably more than the quoted prices.

    Both will produce stunning images but I would not self operate either of them. I would employ an experienced cinematographer as they seem fit into a different workflow than that of a self shooting Director / Editor.

    This whole thing started with people like Vincent Laforet discovering the Canon 5Dmk11. That was 3 years ago and it precipitated a real change in the accessibility of really high definition and affordable cameras.

    For a relatively small investment one could buy a camera that produced truly stunning image quality and slowly build up a set of lenses to cover different situations.

    I personally found it really hard to concentrate on getting both good images and sound with a DSLR and bought a Canon XF305. I now use the DSLR to get specialised shots

    Interestingly the new Canon C300 uses the Canon XF codec (50Mbps 4:2:2 1080p30 MPEG2 MXF)

    If there a race between these cameras it would have to be a three horse race by adding the Sony PMW F3.

    Fo me I’m going start saving up for the new 4k Cinema EOS DSLR. Hopefully that will priced closer to the 5D MK11.

  • Craig Seeman

    November 4, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    I think people miss that 4K is attractive even in 1080p output. The ability to reposition shots, create pseudo dolly or tracking moves, cut between close or long shot from the same clip is valuable.

  • Darren Kelly

    November 4, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    That wouldn’t be my shooting style. I’m not a fix it in post kinda guy. I know my craft, and I shoot what I want and need.

  • Michael Hancock

    November 4, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    [Craig Seeman] “The ability to reposition shots, create pseudo dolly or tracking moves, cut between close or long shot from the same clip is valuable.”

    It’s valuable sometimes, but I’ve seen it breed lazy shooting too. Ever been given all wide shots and told to punch in for the mediums and closeups, create tracking shots, etc…? It sucks.

    Adding a dolly in post looks like a zoom, adding tracking in post usually looks fake. Reframing? That can be nice, but isn’t it easier just to shoot it right the first time?

    Downscaling 4K to 1080p does give you an ultrasharp picture though, which is why I like it.

    Back to the original question – who ultimately wins between Canon and Red? We do.

    —————-
    Michael Hancock
    Editor

  • Craig Seeman

    November 4, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    [Darren Kelly] “I know my craft, and I shoot what I want and need.”

    I shoot what my client wants and need and many of them tend to change or modify what they need after the shoot.

    Some people even do grading in post despite working to get the look during the shoot. Some shoot flat to create the look in post.

    ….or maybe you edit in camera too?

  • David Roth weiss

    November 4, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    [Mark Dobson] “If there a race between these cameras it would have to be a three horse race by adding the Sony PMW F3.”

    Bingo! For some reason the Sony F3 is often overlooked in these conversations. It’s a great camera, at a great price, that shoots stunning video.

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist
    David Weiss Productions, Inc.
    Los Angeles
    https://www.drwfilms.com

    Don’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
    https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1

    POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

    Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.

  • David Roth weiss

    November 4, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    [Steve Connor] “The Canon looks great but we’ll be buying a Scarlet next year.”

    Have you considered the Sony F3 Steve?

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist
    David Weiss Productions, Inc.
    Los Angeles
    https://www.drwfilms.com

    Don’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
    https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1

    POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

    Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.

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