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Is the OpenHD certificate just a fake (for real 10 bit editting)?
As some others in this forum I found out that Premiere Pro can edit 10 bit files but is not preserving it, as it only processes in 8 bit at least with Decklink HD cards.
Re: 10 bit video on PPRO by Tim Kolb on May 27, 2005 at 4:42:00 pm
https://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=3&postid=838209This has been verified by Luke Maslen of Blackmagic Design
Re: 10 or 8bit Software Codec BMD-HD on WindowsXP? by Luke Maslen on Nov 24, 2005 at 5:18:25 am
https://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=124&postid=858164In addition to Luke Maslen’s post that Premiere Pro processes transitions and effects in 8bit, I found out that even when exporting a 10bit file without effects the 10bit information is lost, even if you tell Premiere not to recompress the files.
As a “prove” I used the Blackmagic Decklink Framelink Tool to mount a 10bit 4:2:2 YUV AVI file as multiple 10bit DPX files. These files were then imported in combustion4 and a 10bit step wedge with a width of 1024 has been added. After exporting and reinserting these DPX files into the AVI and unmounting it I imported it in Premiere Pro where I could see the gradient in the image. But after exporting this file with the exact same codec and mounting it to DPX as before there were a change in value every third or fourth pixel meaning only 8bit.This means Premiere Pro can NOT export in REAL 10 bit when using Decklink HD cards. But these cards or better saying two systems having these cards installed are OpenHD certified:
1. Adobe Video Collection Pro Dell
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5 Replies
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I guess no one else is going to touch this one…
My experience has been that most of the 10 bit solutions have a codec and a processing core that operates in 10 bit. CineForm’s Prospect has it’s own “engine” that effectively replaces PPro’s own, giving Prospect true 10 bit throughput. Prospect’s drawback is that it only has a certain number of transitions and effects. Regardless whether one user thinks they’re enough for most professional work, or another user wants 8 layers of PiP with beveled edges and thinks anything less is unacceptable…the fact is that PPro has more effects and transition choices than Prospect does. The problem is that when a user uses any PPro effects or transitions…that segment is processed in 10 bit.
HOWEVER…I have seen situations where even though the codec is 10 bit and the person isn’t doing anything but cutting and exporting back to the same codec, it drops to 8 bit. In almost 100% of these cases I have found that the project settings are not correct. These “replacement editing engines” that various manufacturers supply can only be engaged when the project settings are right. For instance the “Prospect HD” project settings switch on the CineForm engine.
I don’t have any experience wiith Decklink cards, but I might look into this possibility.
TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net -
Hallo,
My experiences are showing, that even with After Effects an AVI with a 10bit gradient which was created using Framelink and DPX files could not be opened in the right way. In a 16bit project with 10bit codevalues the smallest amount of change would be 32 (2^(16-10-1)) but it was 128 meaning 8bit (2^(16-8-1)). Even a Blackmagic 10bit 4:2:2 MOV created directly with Combustion and not with Framelink did not appear in the right way. Combustion itself was able to open the MOV file correctly.
I started several tests opening 10bit MOV and 10bit AVI and exporting them to Blackmagic 10bit AVI using the “Blackmagic Decklink Compiler” project- and also export-settings but after the export the result was just 8bit (256 codevalues). As far as I understand “Blackmagic Decklink Compiler” should mean a render engine different from Premiere’s own.Even with Matrox Axio it is not clear which effect is 10bit and which is just 8bit, because they are using “over 60 native Premiere Pro effects” which are definitely only using 8bit processing. Some other hints I found like color space conversion (YUV to RGB) with values between 0 and 255 (8bit) are written in another thread in the Matrox Video Systems forum.
Is Matrox Axio SD/HD processing in 10bit or only 8bit?”I cannot test it for Axio but for Decklink I come to the same conclusion as Diethelm. Or maybe we are both making the same mistake?
The only way to change this would be a FREE Premiere Pro update of the internal render engine and all the effects. I’m saying FREE, because Adobe advertised the 10bit feature in context with the launch of OpenHD in June 2005. Even before the launch several manufacturers were saying “we can do 10bit with Premiere Pro” but it still does not work right now.
Regards
M.Gro
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Interesting.
As I said, I’ve never used a Decklink card, I only use a Xena, but I’ve never really tested this in depth. I’ll have to check it out to see if there’s anything odd with the Xena card similar to the Decklink.
TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net -
[Michael Gro
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How are you using your xena card? I have one from a software vender who went belly up, and have kept there system around because the card is great, but I need somthing that is supported now. AJA states they will never develop premiere plugins on their own, so I am stuck in no mans land.
Kevin
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