Is the HDX900 history?

[Ernie Santella]

As I read the Panny insert more, it’s just promoting Solid-state and P2, no tape. So, I’m sure that’s the reason for the missing HDX-900.

Sorry for my Paranoia!

Ernie Santella
Santella Film/Video Productions
http://www.santellaproductions.com

[Jan Crittenden livingston]

Hi Ernie,

Please be assured that we have no intention of abandoning our tape based customers. The HDX will be around for a long time.

Best,

Jan

Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, HPX500, HVX200, DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems

[George Griswold]

Dear Jan,

I don’t think Ernie is alone in his fears. The full court press that Panasonic is putting behind the P2 product line is giving lots of us a bit of concern. For some folks the P2 is a great solution, but some of us need/ want tape for very good reasons. As more and more content producers decide on format choices DVCPRO 100 tape may be less appealing because of the big elephant P2 push. As a courtesy and to provide clarity for all of its customers Panasonic should make a stated, overt commitment to DVCPRO 100
tape based solutions for a stated time period going forward. This may be a lost cause since the new Varicam models are P2.

To be honest I have put off the purchase of a AJ-1400 deck because almost all of the marketing push is towards P2 technology. Although not as good a compression technology I am holding off to see how the XDCAM 2/3″ cameras take hold and may adopt that since at least for news CBS and CNN have adopted it (and ABC looks like it will). I know for higher end production DVCPRO 100 is superior, but for a shoot and ship freelancer this may be where the market migrates. As far as shooting and editing HD projects in house I digitize out of my HDX-900 via SDI to ioHD for now. HD is less than 20% of my work right now and I have 2000 hours left on my HDX heads so this seems like a great solution until this whole matter sorts itself out.

I have no regrets buying the HDX-900 because of its 720/1080 flexibility and every freelance shoot request I get is for that or a Varicam (and after a brief discussion the HDX fits the bill).
What should Panasonic do?

1. Clearly state support and ongoing production of DVCPRO 100 tape technology so others will not be fearful of investing in the HDX-900/ AJ-1400. A parallel marketing campaign for the tape based system does not have to undermine P2.

2. Reduce the price of the 1400 or roll out a “work horse” DVCPRO HD tape machine. Most edit systems can do all of the down/cross and up conversions so what smaller shops need is a deck in the “spirit” of the Betacam SP 1800 — affordable and practical. I hate to say this, but maybe a player NLE deck since lots of projects will be output to Blu-Ray or some file type. I think most broadcast and cable shows require a HDCAM SR tape print anyways.

3. Keep an eye on new product opportunities in the tape work flow space. A lower cost tape camera built in the chassis of the HPX-500 is one that comes to mind. Having different levels of product cost helps a format thrive.

4. Explore Disk technology and maybe (gasp!) license the XDCAM format because of its random access strengths and proxy file creation. I don’t think I will live to see this happen, but disks have the benefits of producing instantly deliverable shooting product with the benefits of P2’s random access.

5. Make a P2 recorder like a Firestore drive that us HDX-900 owners could attach to the camera and record P2 files. If we have lost the battle, this would let us preserve out $30K investment in the tape based camera. I would bet that there are schematics for such a device in a file cabinet somewhere. If P2 is the future for Panasonic I see this as a moral imperative for its HDX-900 tape customers (Varicam has no Firewire). I envision a flat pack style (2X2) case powered from the camera and using the 1394 port for data. Those who want to archive to tape and have instantly available P2 media can have it both ways. Panasonic can still champion P2 and give us an option to boot.

I want to say how happy I am with the HDX-900 (and SDX-900) cameras that I own. Customers keep calling for them, the menus (especially PAINT) are clear and powerful. They look great, are reliable, and have paid for themselves quickly. As we move ahead in acquisition technology every manufacturer needs to see the continuing need for a recording medium that we an pop out of a camera and hand to a producer, uplink facility or the FedEx guy.

Those are my thoughts and would be interested in the thoughts of others.

Sincerely,
George

George Griswold
http://www.videonow.info
New Orleans, Louisiana

[Jan Crittenden livingston]

[George Griswold] “5. 1. Clearly state support and ongoing production of DVCPRO 100 tape technology so others will not be fearful of investing in the HDX-900/ AJ-1400. A parallel marketing campaign for the tape based system does not have to undermine P2. .”

There is not an endless supply of money for advertising. The HDX900 is a well established product and any manufacturer will show that there is a null benefit in putting adverting out on an established product. I have another product in the line that has not seen an ad in 2 years, that would be the DVX100B. It isn’t going away soon either. I could point to the DVCAM product line, I haven’t see an ad for that or how about the DigiBeta product. The point is the HDX900 is not going away, and will continue to be sold for the very reasons that caused you to buy it over its P2 brother.

[George Griswold] “5. 4. Explore Disk technology and maybe (gasp!) license the XDCAM format because of its random access strengths and proxy file creation. I don’t think I will live to see this happen, but disks have the benefits of producing instantly deliverable shooting product with the benefits of P2’s random access. .”

Well we did explore the disk technolgies and we felt that there was not sufficient gain in reliability, flexibility or capacity to warrant the investment of time and R & D to make it viable. And the fact that the S company is now pursuing a solid state solution is an underwritng of that same conclusion. And for even thinking of using the XDCAM algorithm, that certainly isn’t an acceptable idea as if we had done that we would have mired ourselves into a very dated compression scheme in MPEG2 and would not have had opportunity to develop AVC-Intra which is a far superior algorithm that comes close to D5HD and it can record to P2 as well.

[George Griswold] “5. Make a P2 recorder like a Firestore drive that us HDX-900 owners could attach to the camera and record P2 files. .”

Why wouldn’t you just use the Firestore? It certainly would work just as you say and you certainly can attach it using the AWBMK-HD100 from Anton Bauer.

[George Griswold] “5. If we have lost the battle, this would let us preserve out $30K investment in the tape based camera. .”

You have not lost the battle, the 900 is here to stay.

[George Griswold] “5. I would bet that there are schematics for such a device in a file cabinet somewhere. If P2 is the future for Panasonic I see this as a moral imperative for its HDX-900 tape customers (Varicam has no Firewire). I envision a flat pack style (2X2) case powered from the camera and using the 1394 port for data. .”

This device is called the P2 Gear, model number AJ-HPG10

[George Griswold] “5. Those who want to archive to tape and have instantly available P2 media can have it both ways. Panasonic can still champion P2 and give us an option to boot. .”

The option is there now if you want it.

[George Griswold] “5. I want to say how happy I am with the HDX-900 (and SDX-900) cameras that I own. Customers keep calling for them, the menus (especially PAINT) are clear and powerful. They look great, are reliable, and have paid for themselves quickly. As we move ahead in acquisition technology every manufacturer needs to see the continuing need for a recording medium that we an pop out of a camera and hand to a producer, uplink facility or the FedEx guy.”

And all of this is why the HDX is staying in the product line.

Best regards,

Jan

Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, HPX500, HVX200, DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems

[George Griswold]

Jan,
Thank you for your thorough reply on this Sunday AM. You answered many of my questions about the future of DVCPRO HD tape and other issues. You bring up a good point about Sony adopting a card based recording scheme despite having the XD disks.

My dream of Panasonic saying “we will support tape through 20XX” is unrealistic I admit. When the storage cost limitation is finally removed many of us will adopt the cards too. I am sure you have heard many times “if the P2 cards cost less we would gladly use them”. That is only a matter of time– every sector of information technology is searching for card based inexpensive storage. Someone will come up with a 64gig card made with a new technology that costs $100… someday.

Hats off to Panasonic for giving us more transparency than Sony ever did or ever will. Allowing Jan and others the latitude to comment on these forums is really amazing. No manufacturer will ever announce actual or projected product life cycles (that they themselves may not know), and getting information directly from a Product Manager is what customer support truly is.

For now I may try the Firestore 160 DVCPRO HD drive and see how that works out for projects I edit myself in HD. For SD projects I (try to) convert every call for Betacam SP to DVCPRO 50 using a SDX-900 that I bought just last October– it has paid for itself more than twice over already. Thanks Panasonic!

Thank you,
George

George Griswold
http://www.videonow.info
New Orleans, Louisiana

[John Cummings]

George-

I suspect most of us HDX owners will have fully realized our ROI (and much more) with these cameras by the time Panasonic finally pulls the plug on tape and HDX support. That little firewire plug alone should help prolong the HDX’s viability by a couple of years.

By the time we’re done with these cameras, we should see dramatically longer runtimes as well as much, much lower prices on solid state media.

With all the drama and angst among other freelancers over what format to buy, I actually feel pretty smart and satisfied about my HDX purchase.

I also agree Jan is a wonderful asset to her company and a valuable resource for all of us here on the cow…even when she tells us things we don’t want to hear…

J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv

[Ernie Santella]

I 2nd the request for a cheaper, less featured DVCProHD playback deck. I’m exactly in the same boat as George. I have held off on buying a 1400 deck because they’re too expensive and have too many features we don’t need. Price it around $11K list, $8K street and you’ll have a winner.

Ernie Santella
Santella Film/Video Productions
http://www.santellaproductions.com

[Peter Corbett]

Jan,

Panasonic must relase a low-cost DVCPRO100 player to keep the format viable. Let’s face it, most programs like TVC’s and corporates never have to go to tape-out once they are ingested. There should be a Sony J3-style player available with basic RS-422 control and HD-SDI outputs. I myself won’t buy a HDX900 becasue of the high-cost playback device needed to output video.

“Yes” you might say, that’s what P2 is there for. But I shoot a lot of long-form material and don’t necessarily want to back up every day after (or during) a shoot. Last week on a doco shoot I shot five hours of interviews a day for five days (on a SDX900). If I can’t go for a HDX900/cheaper player combo, then I will seriously look at the Sony 700 XDCAMHD.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au

[George Griswold]

Peter,

I think you are thinking what many other people are thinking– an affordable system with media that an be handed off and archived with no intermediate steps and pitfalls. Tape may be dead (or threatened), but its benefits are not forgotten; for some tape is still the best storage medium bar none.

The XDCAM with its instantly deliverable media is looking attractive to lots of folks. Despite its so-so compression it may become a widely used standard if for no other reason that you can buy an affordable NLE ingest deck. Added benefits: store field tapes right from camera to a shelf and field recordings can be safely handed to a client with your invoice. If the infrastructure develops to deliver file based content safely and easily the cards would work great. Producers may start traveling with hard drives and intake gear for P2?

I am glad to see I am not the only person who thinks that a sub $10K deck would be a winner. The sentiments here reflect what I was thinking to myself— that the $20,000 AJ-1400 only serves to marginalize DVCPRO HD tape and sadly the HDX-900 camera. The 1394 connector will fortunately make the camera useful for years regardless of any present or future storage methods.

I was put off by the problems that people seemed to have with the FireStore drives, but I think they have worked out the bugs. May have to give that a try soon.

Thank you,
George

George Griswold
http://www.videonow.info
New Orleans, Louisiana

[Nick Teti]

I don’t think the HDX900 is in peril. The beauty of tape is having a permanent backup, and not spending time stopping on a shoot download MXF files and burning files onto DVD, (as a full day becomes a full day + half day to do that if your shooting by yourself) archiving etc. As freelance camera operator, I’d rather spend time shooting, not doing the job of the editor + I can always Fed Ex the tapes insured. A Fire Store drive also acts as a big P2 card, plus a backup if the cameras tape mechanism were to fail (run tape and the Fire Store at the same time, or just the Fire Store with the HDX 900). Many of us good old fashioned people like tape and it’s tangible benefits, just like the Sony HDCAM people do, and Fed Ex tapes to people across the globe, so P2 is added time to us.

Panasonic HDX900 could be the next BetaCam in camera popularity as long as Panasonic puts out a Desk, affordably priced which plays VariCam tapes in all frame rates, and of coarse the tapes from the HDX 900. Nick, HDX 900 owner, Colorado, contact@misterphoton.com
– 1-720-299-2084