IO Express HDMI out not working properly

[Jorge Torrens]

Hi Tim, I though it was clear from the conversaion that I was using a mac and FCP as well as nuke and after effects, as for the settings I have tried every combination in the hdmi tab, but for the dreamcolor the only one that has sense is RGB, as it needs to be driven by a true progresive RGB signal to activate the colorspace settings otherwise the monitor works in full range. For the program settings in fcp I use 1080p 24 and 25 fps settings in prores 422, and in nuke and fcp there are no timeline settings as suchs as the image is allways progresive RGB uncompress.

I have not tried the own aja application, I don’t recall the name either, I will give it a try on monday but I don’t belive it would make a difference as every other application gives me the same result on the blacks, as if they where lift and to noisy, even in a computer generated graphic where there is no noise.

Jorge

[Jorge Torrens]

Ok, I’ve tried a couple of things, just in case, but clearly the problem is with the aja output.

1. I connected the Dreamcolor straight to the computer via a dvi->hdmi to check if it was the Dreamcolor HDMI input the culprit, and the levels look fine, just in case I created another REC 709 profile with the HP probe using the HDMI input and it look fine too, the image looked the same if I switched from the dvi to the hdmi input in the monitor.

2. I installed the pro-aplications upgrade that came out last week, no changes.

3. As per Tim’s suggestion I’ve tried aja own application TVout and the same results, black levels to high.

Sorry to keep coming back with this problem but It would really like to make it work, it would be a very good solution if it worked properly, the sdi output works perfectly.

Jorge Torrens

[Jorge Torrens]

One more thing, I thought that I’ve checked the IOExpress with After Effects, but I was mistaken I have only checked with FCP, Nuke and Aja own’s TVOut, at the moment IOExpress does not work with AE or Motion, sorry for the confusion.

Jorge

[Gary Adcock]

[Jorge Torrens] “Hi Jeremy, yes I have true p originated material, I work mostly with Red originated files or panasonic 3000 and both in 24p or 25p.”

First jorge.
understand there is a big difference between RED files which are 1080 true P and the Panasonic cameras which shoot P over interlace- these are NOT the same formats in the timeline.

[Jorge Torrens] ” but for the dreamcolor the only one that has sense is RGB, as it needs to be driven by a true progresive RGB signal to activate the colorspace settings otherwise the monitor works in full range. “

your HDMI connection is always delivering a “P” signal regardless of the signal sent to it, you are correct that the output is progressive, but not always RGB, HDMI can be YUV or RGB as you not.

[Jorge Torrens] “or the program settings in fcp I use 1080p 24 and 25 fps settings in prores 422, and in nuke and fcp there are no timeline settings as suchs as the image is allways progresive RGB uncompress. “

NO it is not. FCP will always default to YUV color when outputting captured video. Your RED files would be converted to YUV in RED apps when you convert to 1080.

WHAT does the IoExpress/ Kona control panel say the video space is? not what you think it is- what does it SAY it is?

[Jorge Torrens] “I connected the Dreamcolor straight to the computer via a dvi->hdmi to check if it was the Dreamcolor HDMI input the culprit, and the levels look fine”
So you do not seem to think that the DVI connection could be doing anything to the signal?

There is a defined color space for the DVI output from the HDLINK that you seem to be forgetting about.
Since the HDLink device does allow for setting color space and lut info – how do you know that that process is not being used here.? Those settings are meant to compensate for the 8bit processing in the device.

a 10 bit signal should show more detail and by-passing any LUT’s that are being used in the default mode on the HDLink.

maybe posting images would help us understand.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Gary Adcock]

[Jorge Torrens] ” I thought that I’ve checked the IOExpress with After Effects, but I was mistaken I have only checked with FCP, Nuke and Aja own’s TVOut, at the moment IOExpress does not work with AE or Motion, sorry for the confusion. “

Thats not right.
all three of those Apps (AE, Motion and Nuke) all work on my Io Express.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Jorge Torrens]

Hi Gary, In my case neither AE4 or Motion allow me to select Aja as a video output device, maybe there is something wrong with my installation?

Jorge

[Jorge Torrens]

Hi Gary thanks for your time I really appreciate it.

I believe you are misinterpreting me, most likely due to my english, I understand perfectly how the dreamcolor works, I’ve been using it without problems for over a year, so I’m not worried about how to get it to work with a predefined colorspace. I’m not asking how to send a true progressive RGB signal to the dreamcolor.

My problem is exclusively with the black levels out of the HDMI output of the Aja IoExpress, and I’m seeing the problem irregardless of where the material originated or the application I’m using.

I see the wrong levels in:

[Gary Adcock]

[Jorge Torrens] “My problem is exclusively with the black levels out of the HDMI output of the Aja IoExpress, and I’m seeing the problem irregardless of where the material originated or the application I’m using.

I see the wrong levels in:
YUV originated material, AVCIntra panasonic in FCP and color
RGB converted to YUV, RED to prores in FCP and color
RGB native, computer generated gradient in nuke
RGB native, Red r3D in nuke and color
“

Jorge,
your english is excellent.

I understand that you are not seeing Black Levels that you expect- have you looked at a waveform or vectorscope to check the signal from the source?

You are trying to match to something that may or may not be changing your video-out signal via the HDLink and any of those things can affect the output. There are LUT’s for the HDLINK converter. ( look up tables- files that change the nature of a signal being played)

1) The DreamColor is NOT a video display, it is a computer display that can handle a video signal.

2) Do NOT use the FULL RANGE for HDMI- the default is SMPTE for a reason.

You cannot call something RGB because you think it is- the HDLINK is converting YUV video to RGB via some unknown factor- it is conforming your video to the 709 color space and then to RGB for the HDMI to the DreamColor settings as REC 709- you have no choice in this if you are trying to use this computer monitor as a video monitor.

3) RGB signals are traditionally DUAL LINK HDSDI- if you are trying to send RGB over a SINGLE cable of HDSDI this is the first place to start.

4) Video is by it’s nature a YUV (Y’Cr’Cb’ in HD) signal.

5) Depending on how the RED footage was converted it is YUV within the REC 709 Color space. Your Panasonic 3000 footage is always YUV and 1080 Psf.

OK I took My Io Express and sent a 1920x 1080 ProResHQ file of the ASC’s StEM demo footage and set it up so that I could simultaneously view 3 different sources via Component to a Panasonic 17′ display, via HDMI to a HP Dreamcolor and using the HA5-3G converter (HDSDI- HDMI) from the HDSDIO output to my Sony Bravia XBR client monitor direct out of the IoExpress.

I do not see any difference between the signals, and my Tektronics scope confirms my visual inspection, but I do not have a HDLINK to test this on, but I am not seeing the differences you describe in the signal output with my tests.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Jeremy Garchow]

I agree, your English is way better than my spanish.

Your FCP video out shoudl look like this (you can choose the proper frame ratefor your footage):

And the ioExpress Control Panel should look like this:

Jeremy

[Jorge Torrens]

Thanks Jeremy my Aja settings are exactly as you show them and so are the FCP with the exception of the frame rate which is 24 fps instead of 23.98, my material originated as 24 and is an offline for a film out at 24 fps. But my problem occours also in nuke where the settings are completely different.

I’m really sorry to be such a drag but I would very much like to make it work as I find it to be a very nice solution for monitoring 10bits out to the HP

By the way I am receiving very soon a Kona LHi and I have another dreamcolor where I can try both side by side.

Jorge