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Interlaced graphics with psf footage
Hi, I am working on a TV series which is all shot DVCPro HD 1080PsF25. I know and understand that this material is technically interlaced (so progressive within an interlaced container), but I have a broadcaster requirement to deliver any added graphics – of which there are many – as proper interlaced.
In FCP7, I have set up my sequence’s field dominance as ‘upper (odd)’, which works just as well as ‘none’ for all the actual footage, as you’d expect with PsF. However, I have two big issues with graphics. Firstly, the show uses a lot of 3ds max-created graphics wipes, all upper-field first rendered to TIF sequences with alpha, then converted into ProRes 4444 clips with alpha with interlace ‘checked’, all using AE (yes, all the settings for importing into AE are correct, including splitting fields, etc). Upon using these into FCP, they look horrendous whether I use ‘upper (odd)’ or ‘none’ as the sequence field dominance, so…is there a way to correctly deal with this, given that I’d prefer to use the ‘upper (odd)’ dominance setting in FCP?
The 2nd issue (or rather concern, given the above), is the credit roll. I am using a very good AE expression to create a smooth credit roll and rendering to native DVCPro 1080i50. In FCP, the roll plays perfectly when in ‘upper (odd)’ field dom. mode, but displays awful interline twitter in ‘none’ mode, hence my preference for staying in the PsF-but-still-interlaced domain throughout the edit and post.
Anyone have a solution to this, seeing as FCP can’t import the image sequences natively? I’ve tried virtually every permutation of field settings in AE (both on import and export), and have verified the correct field order in 3ds max, but no joy. The only way I have found is to drop the fields completely, which is far from ideal with lots of fast moving graphics.
Thanks, Oli
Oli da Costa
Fraktiv Post Production
London W1 -
10 Replies
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If you need interlaced, I would make sure that all of your material is set to a field dominance of upper in FCP, that’s your footage, your graphics, your timeline, your footage in the timeline, everything.
Jeremy
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Dual Quad core 3.0Ghz <> 16GB RAM <> FCP 7.0.1 <> Kona 3
Sonnet D800RAID, 8TB
OS 10.5.8 <> QT 7.6.4 -
Hi Jerry. Everything is already set up upper, I was only really trying the ‘none’ option to see if it corrected the graphics field issue, which of course it didn’t. I’ve looked at both the AE and 3ds max forums to try to see if there’s anyone else who’s experienced this, but can’t find any answers. The only suggestion has been to render 3ds max elements with motion blur (very time consuming indeed) and basically fake the interlaced ‘effect’ that way.
Oli
Oli da Costa
Fraktiv Post Production
London W1 -
[Oli da Costa] “Everything is already set up upper, “
Including the video footage and not just the timeline?
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Yep, everything. Footage was captures as DVCPro HD 1080i50 and ALL clips are in the bin showing as upper field first. All graphics are the same (they’ve all been rendered from After Effects using ‘field rendering’ and directly to the native DVCPro CODEC as 1080i50. The exception is the wipes, which need an alpha channel to work. These have been field rendered from 3ds max, maintaining fields through AE and saves as ProRes 4444 QT files with RGBA channels (millions+) to 1920×1080 50i files. In QT and can verify that the fields are present…I can see them…but once in FCP and overlaid over the footage as I require, they look terrible!
Oli
Oli da Costa
Fraktiv Post Production
London W1 -
[Oli da Costa] “but once in FCP and overlaid over the footage as I require, they look terrible! “
And this is monitoring on an external video monitor and after rendering, correct?
Any chance you can post a few seconds of the full res alpha wipe?
Jeremy
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Indeed…I’m monitoring on a 32″ flat panel TV with native full HD res and a LaCie 324 – both connected via HDMI from my BMD Multibridge Pro 2. I have also connected an SD CRT monitor and set the Mutlibridge to downconvert to SD and monitored via SD component and still it looks awful! All is rendered and prepped for full quality playback.
Will zip and post a couple of original TIF frames from 3ds and the ProRes 4444 wipe in a while (just in the middle of a sound edit at the moment)…
Cheers, Oli
Oli da Costa
Fraktiv Post Production
London W1 -
[Oli da Costa] “Will zip and post a couple of original TIF frames from 3ds and the ProRes 4444 wipe in a while (just in the middle of a sound edit at the moment)… “
That will make it easier. Thanks!
Jeremy
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Hi Jeremy, I’ve zipped a full 50 frame TIF sequence for one of the wipes and the corresponding ProRes 444 output file and put it here. Just to reiterate, my sequence is a native DVCPro HD 1080i50 sequence with ‘upper’ field dom (and all media set the same), though my source material is shot 1080PsF25.
BTW, if you want the After Effects project (if that helps), I can upload the .aep too.
Let me know what you make of it…much appreciated, cheers!
Oli
Oli da Costa
Fraktiv Post Production
London W1 -
Hey Oli. Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you but I was on a shoot yesterday, but it appears to be that the field order is wrong on the tiffs. You are right, it doesn’t look good at all. I would think that the original 3ds Max renderings are screwed up.
The .mov looks ok if the timeline is set to ‘none’, but once going to Upper, it’s not right. It appears the fields are reversed.
Jeremy
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Hi Jeremy, no probs at all, I appreciate you taking a look! I’ve had another look at 3ds max (I’m doing the modeling and rendering too), and whilst it assures me that the field order is set correctly, correct, I have swapped the field order and tried rendering again, and voila…it works, both in AE and FCP!
This must be a bug in 3ds max, or they’ve got their uppers and lowers confused with their odds and evens…but anyway, it’s not what one would expect from a professional and very expensive product (I’m on the latest 3ds max 2010 Design). Anyhow, rant over…got to get rendering! Thanks again.
Oli
Oli da Costa
Fraktiv Post Production
London W1
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