Interference Patterns on Saturated graphics

[Jerry Hofmann]

Can you get an original version of the logo in a tiff or PNG or anything but a JPEG? Might be a lot better…
I don’t particularly care for the the way JPEG images come out, and seems to me when I get a tiff of the same, it sure renders nicer.

Ya never know though, maybe if you open the JPEG in Photoshop and save it as an RGB tiff, things might improve?

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17″ MBP, Matrox MXO, CD’s

[Adam Taylor]

I don’t think thats it Jerry, as i avoid using jpgs if at all possible.
I have even remade the image from scratch, saving out to tiff (several different ways, also). I even created a red layer (cropped) in FCP and overlaid the white text and i still ended up with the interference pattern.

I think its something to do with how Pal handles saturated colours, but i am not sure how to approach the problem without drastically altering the look of corporate logos…which is usually frowned upon by the companies themselves (how very intolerant of them!!).

adam

Adam Taylor
Video Editor/Audio Mixer/ Compositor/Motion GFX/Barista
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

[Jeremy Garchow]

What version of FCP? Do you have a capture card? Does it happen in 8bit (just as a litmus test)? Are you scaling the graphic from within FCP?

Jeremy

[Adam Taylor]

version 6.0.3,
Kona 3
OSX 10.4.11

haven’t tried it in 8bit….and no – not doing any scaling to this particular graphic. I have tried it at different scales and it seems to happen regardless!.

I gotta say, this has been noticeable on red/white logos since i got the kit 2 years ago, and after making initial investigations i kinda convinced myself to ignore it. Recently a job needed the logo bigger than normal which emphasized the issue and forceed me to look into it again.

I have a feeling this is one of those rare occurences where a PAL shortcoming rears its head, and will mean little to NTSC users. I remember a dim and distant seminar years ago when an engineer explained certain differences between the two systems, and i think what i’m seeing is one of those!

adam

Adam Taylor
Video Editor/Audio Mixer/ Compositor/Motion GFX/Barista
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

[Jeremy Garchow]

[adam taylor] “haven’t tried it in 8bit….and no – not doing any scaling to this particular graphic. I have tried it at different scales and it seems to happen regardless!. “

Duplicate your timeline, change the render settings to 8 bit and render that graphic. Does it help?

There used to be 10 bit render errors in FCP.

It could be PAL vs NTSC, but let’s rule that out later.

Jeremy

[Jeff Coleman]

Sounds like you’re running into the limitations of the codec.
Red type or logos never look really good here either in the Apple codecs.

You could try a different codec like Sheer.

https://forums.creativecow.net/archivethread/8/558044#558044

https://www.bitjazz.com/en/products/sheervideo/

Love,
Jeff

Final Cut Studio 5.1, G5 2GHz Dual Processr, 2.5Gb RAM, AJA IO

[Michael Gissing]

How are you feeding signal to the CRT monitor? Composite PAL on a CRT has horrible chroma crawl on red colours (note the PAL spelling).

If you are seeing it on an SDI or good component feed I am not sure what to suggest. A slight blur may soften the crawlies a bit. 8 bit may help but at the expense of all your pics.

[Adam Taylor]

appreciate the spelling Michael!!

I’m using sdi all the way, into a JVC TM H1950C crt.
I tried rendering into various different codecs and the problem remained (Pro ResHQ actually made it a lot worse).
The only one that looked promising (at least unbtil i actually rendered was the “Graphic” codec. Once rendered it looked really grainy and unpleasant.

I don’t have “sheer”so can’t try it.

i wish i could post a screen grab, but as its only showing on the crt, that aint’t possible.

I can say that the noise is not crawling in anyway, but looks more like echoing shadows that follow the shape of the edges of the red and white. With the graphic on a black background (to cancel any possible interference from other layers) there is a definite series of vertical shadows on the left hand side of the red box…much more obvious than on the other edges.

I’m now thinking its possibly the limitations of the crt that could be the cause!

adam

Adam Taylor
Video Editor/Audio Mixer/ Compositor/Motion GFX/Barista
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

[Jeff Coleman]

You can download sheer and try it for free.

https://www.bitjazz.com/en/products/sheervideo/