Insert Edit on Digibeta problem FCP 6.0.5

[Peter Wiggins]

Reference set to input?

Peter

[Kevin Maguire]

Hi John,

What happens after that? Is the insert successful apart from the audio drop, or do you get an error message?

More info would be handy.

BTW, is your in point set over a transition? If so, move the in point away from the transition.

[Richard Sanchez]

I’ve never been able to do successful audio punches within Final Cut, like you might punch audio in pro tools or the like. I thought I was doing it wrong, but I had another editor explain to me that the tape deck pre rolls, but since Final Cut does not, it tends to create audio pops at the insert point. This works fine for video fixes, but makes audio fixes a pain. That said, whenever I had to do audio fixes to tape, I would typically relay the entire act, from the commercial break spots.

I could be totally wrong, because I’ve read about other editors doing audio inserts and being alright, but I’ve never had success doing punches, so I would try just relaying the entire act.

Richard Sanchez
North Hollywood, CA

“We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution.” – Bill Hicks

[Chris Borjis]

[Richard Sanchez] “it tends to create audio pops at the insert point.”

sometimes….sometimes not.

once in a while I hear pop when the tone is laid back.
every version I have going to 5.04 did that.

running 6.01 here.

[Richard Sanchez]

That sometimes is what scares me. I’d rather just be safe and relay the whole act over. There’s no better way to spoil your day than to get a phone call from network QC!

Richard Sanchez
North Hollywood, CA

“We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution.” – Bill Hicks

[Baz Leffler]

This is a BUG in FCP and has been there for quite a while. Without using big words I have to say ‘latency’.

As explained in another response here, FCP does an instant start when playing into the edit but the audio starts about 5 mS late (thats about an 8th of a frame) so you get this little ‘nothingness’ at the edit point.

I thought it was a PAL only thing as PAL is always treated as the poor cousin to NTSC because FCP is mainly debugged in NTSC but with Hi Dev now who knows where the priorities lie.

Here is my workaround… export the audio as a separate file and load it into another computer that can do a timecode chase and play it from there when doing the edit – yep very involved an a pain in the right testing123!

Maybe you should submit a bug report as they have never responded to mine regarding this issue. And ps. it is also a BIG problem editing to HDCAM!

Baz

What would I do without the ‘UNDO’ button!!!!

[Richard Sanchez]

Baz,

It’s problematic doing audio edits to HDCAM, or are tape edits in general problematic going to HDCAM? Maybe is an issue with tweaking device control settings?

Richard Sanchez
North Hollywood, CA

“We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution.” – Bill Hicks

[Baz Leffler]

Richard – yes there are settings within the machine as in ‘types of audio edits’ but that is mainly to avoid digital clicks caused by slightly different DC levels at sample sized portions. All broadcast digital machines provide for this ‘overlapping’ audio edit and gives the user an option for magnitude of the overlap.

But if there is no audio coming in at the point of edit then of course there will be a problem. If I do and audio edit to a source locked to the decks timecode and playing at the point of edit I get a perfect glitch free edit – in this case I am using an audio program called Nuendo which locks to midi timecode generated from a Unitor 8 SMPTE to midi converter. Also just doing a deck to deck edit will also provide glitch free audio.

But as I have said, not so with FCP as it is starting its audio playback late. IN FACT, it is starting its WHOLE playback late; VIDEO AND AUDIO – its just that you dont notice the video as it is parked on the first frame anyhow. It would be great if FCP allowed for a ‘split edit’ to tape where you could do the vision edit first and when the audio edit came along the timeline is already playing so voila – no 5mS audio dropout!

Baz

What would I do without the ‘UNDO’ button!!!!

[Michael Gissing]

The concept of instant start on the edit point is one of the many mistakes that AVID made and FCP copied. In all video editing prior to AVID, machines pre rolled and locked so that video and audio was rolling pre cut.

As Baz points out, digi beta and HDCam machies have a default 10m/s crossfade so if the audio starts from the cut, there will be a 5 m/s hole or click at the edit. FCP cannot do an audio insert properly, unless you re-lay a whole sequence.

[Michael Gissing]

I should also point out that the out point also has no post roll so the audio out will have the same problem.

This behaviour is bewildering to anyone who has worked in video and audio for longer than computer based editing. I am amazed that FCP and AVID have never changed their methodology to something that makes proper insert editing possible.