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Importing 59.94fps files created on an HVX as 24p into FCP
Hello,
I recently completed production on a short film that I directed.
Our camera was the Panasonic HVX-200. We shot in 720/24p. We shot 24p normal, not 24p Advanced and not 24p Native.
Instead of using P2cards, we recorded the footage on a Firestore and then, at the end of each day, we transferred that footage to a Western Digital 500G hard drive. We made the transfer by plugging in the firestore and the hard drive into my Apple Powerbook G4 (not Intel) laptop, and then dragged the files from the firestore to the external hard drive.
I then backed up all the files on another external hard drive.
The files all seem to have transferred fine. I can open them all as quicktime movies, and all the footage is there. When I hit “Get Info” on the files, I’m told that the dimensions of the files are 1280×720, and the codecs are DVCPRO HD (720p60), Integer (Little Endian), Timecode.
My planned workflow was to create a new project in Final Cut Pro 5.1.4, import all the footage, make markers with my thoughts, then send the hard drive with all the raw footage and the project to my editor in Los Angeles.
However, when I try to import the footage through the Panasonic P2 setting under the Import section of the File menu (as Apple’s White Paper on the workflow suggests https://images.apple.com/pro/pdf/L317074A_FCP_Wkflw.pdf), it is not reading the files on the hard drive as being P2 files. So I have tried to import them with the Command+I function, or Import Files from the Import section of the File menu. I use Easy Setup and select DVCPRO HD – 720p24 and import the files. This seems to work, but the vid rate is still reading as 59.94 and the Compressor is reading as DVCPRO HD 720p60. I know that the HVX captures footage at 59.94, but since we recorded the film at 24p, shouldn’t the vid rate say 23.98? How do I know that Final Cut is removing the pulldown and duplicate frames flagged when we shot in 24p, if I’m not importing through the Panasonic P2 Import window? Is there another way to do the pulldown?
What should I set as my “Easy Setup”? DVCPRO HD – 720p24? DV NTSC? DV NTSC 24p (23.98)? I seem to be reading mixed things about this online.
Does this workflow even seem possible? Or is there something that I’m missing that might better synthesize what I’m trying to do?
I know this issue might be mundane for some of you, but we, unfortunately, did not have an HD Tech on set, so I am having to figure out this workflow now by myself.
Thank you very much for any help you can give.
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6 Replies
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You didn’t shoot true 24fps video… (that would be 24pn) and you didn’t shoot 24pa (advanced mode) either, and since you didn’t, it’s importing it with the pulldown intact, as 24fps with a 3:2 pulldown. (only 24 unique frames there, spread over 29.97) It’s not all that important that you remove the pulldown unless you want to fit more on a single DVD in the end, as all TV’s can only deal with 29.97 video anyway… but if you want to remove the pulldown you can with Cinema Tools. I’d let the editor do this work actually if necessary.
But that’s why FCP reports what it does. FCP is correct you have 720p60 footage with a 3:2 pulldown used to spread those 24 unique frames over 30…
Jerry
Apple Certified Trainer
Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here
8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17″ MBP, Matrox MXO, CD’s
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[Gibson Frazier] “However, when I try to import the footage through the Panasonic P2 setting under the Import section of the File menu (as Apple’s White Paper on the workflow suggests https://images.apple.com/pro/pdf/L317074A_FCP_Wkflw.pdf), it is not reading the files on the hard drive as being P2 files.”
Did you keep the ENTIRE file structure of the P2 cards? Contents folder with EVERY folder inside? lastclip.txt file? That is the only way you can import properly into FCP.
[Gibson Frazier] “So I have tried to import them with the Command+I function, or Import Files from the Import section of the File menu. I use Easy Setup and select DVCPRO HD – 720p24 and import the files. This seems to work,”
OK…but are the audio and video files separate? If you see the footage that you have P2CMS installed and can read the files natively, but that doesn’t convert them to QT or marry the audio and video. So I am unclear what step you took here.
[Gibson Frazier] “but the vid rate is still reading as 59.94 and the Compressor is reading as DVCPRO HD 720p60. I know that the HVX captures footage at 59.94, but since we recorded the film at 24p, shouldn’t the vid rate say 23.98?”
Nope. If you shot 720p 24p…then it is 720p 59.94. That is the vid rate of that format…59.94 (60fps). The only way to get 720p at 23.98 is to shoot 720p 24PN. If that was your intention then you should have shot that format. As it stands, you have 24p “look” on 59.94 material, pulldown added to make it look right, as Jerry mentioned.
And the compressor, even if you shot 24PN, will always be 720p60…that is the compressor type for that format.
[Gibson Frazier] “How do I know that Final Cut is removing the pulldown and duplicate frames flagged when we shot in 24p, if I’m not importing through the Panasonic P2 Import window?”
With 720p, it won’t remove pulldown on import. This only works if you shot 1080pA24. Pulldown removal upon import is available only for footage shot in the Advanced mode. 720p does not have an Advanced mode…it has 24p (24 at 60fps) and 24PN (where it shoots 24 ACTUAL frames per second), and with 24PN there is no pulldown to remove.
If your intention was to get 720p at 23.98, then you shot incorrectly.
Advanced Pulldown removal after the fact can only occur on 29.97 footage…so again, only work on footage shot at 1080p, as that is a 29.97 format. 720p is a 59.94 format, so the pulldown removal will not work. You are stuck working with your footage at 720p59.94 (with the 24p look) unless you reshoot.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] “Nope. If you shot 720p 24p…then it is 720p 59.94. That is the vid rate of that format…59.94 (60fps). The only way to get 720p at 23.98 is to shoot 720p 24PN. If that was your intention then you should have shot that format. As it stands, you have 24p “look” on 59.94 material, pulldown added to make it look right, as Jerry mentioned. “
Not withstanding the entirely lame way that the files were imported into FCP why does that preclude the use of the standard pulldown removal tools – as long as the footage is still DVCPROHD.
or have I missed something?
methods for pulldown removal include
1) use the DVCPROHD 720p23.98 setting to remove the pulldown while using L&T ( make sure to recheck the box in the L&T prefs)
2) pass the footage thru Compressor to remove the pulldown.
3) use Final Cuts DVCPRO HD FRC to remove the pulldown from previously captured clips.
4) lastly you can use Cinema tools to remove the pulldown (pain in the butt- never works correctly from 60fps materials)
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
[Jerry Hofmann] “FCP is correct you have 720p60 footage with a 3:2 pulldown used to spread those 24 unique frames over 30… “
Uh
720p60 is 60 frames a second not 30 like NTSC is.
Pulldown in all 720p Video is always full frames and never fields, but the rules still apply.gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
AH YES! The DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter, in the TOOLS MENU! I forgot that it removes pulldown from 59.94 footage to get 23.98. I have only used this to convert 720p60 to 720p24 SLOW MOTION. It does that, but it ALSO removes the pulldown from 60 frame footage shot 24p to make it 23.98.
Thanks Gary. SEE? This is why you need a community to answer questions.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
I hope you guys can help, I’m having the opposite problem and it’s killing me at the moment…
What I’m dealing with:
G5 Dual 2.3 GHz Power PC w 4.5 GB Ram
FCP 5.1.4
HVX-200 Footage shot at 720p/60, dumped from p2 cards onto hard drive. Footage is sound and has been checked.So I have spent ALL DAY trying to resolve this, I have spoken to Panasonic and Apple and I need help.
(Note that I have ordered my FCP 7 upgrade but of course I have to upgrade my tower to even run it, so as this is a power pc, upgrading to help me out of this particular jam isn’t an option due to time.)SO here’s the problem; I always shoot in 720p/24p and have never messed with my FCP settings before. On top of that, my camera was being used by a friend so I had to use a rental HVX, I reset it to default, made sure the “Shutter” button was set to “OFF” and shot all day in 720p/60. I did this because it was all handheld and I didn’t want the 24p strobing issues. So I copied all the files from the cards onto my hard drive and returned the rental camera.
When I opened FCP 5.1.4 to edit, I opened the P2 viewer window, chose the clips I wanted to import and clicked “Add to Queue.” and FCP did the rest, I never changed anything. Once I started watching the clips however, both in the FCP P2 viewer, and in the Viewer/Timeline, I noticed the footage is all jittery and strobey… as if it were in 24p. Low and behold the “Vid Rate” column in the browser said “23.98” on all the clips, but I verified in Panasonic’s P2 Management software that they are all in fact 59.94. So I called Apple FCP support and they said “FCP 5 may not be powerful enough to capture 720p/60 so it just brought it in at 23.98 because it was easier. I would download transcoding software to convert the .mxf files to something FCP can use.” Im not very good at FCP at all so already I’m lost. Isn’t this the most basic of default settings? Shouldn’t I be able to edit this stuff without bringing in additional software?
So I tried making duplicates of the clips in Panasonic’s P2 Content Management Software and those files import as separate sound and video files and FCP shows a warning that “These files are not optimized to work with FCP and you may want to convert them elsewhere before using them.” Like I said, I am only the most basic FCP editor, though I know the problem is in the bringing in of the clips, not in a timeline setting or anything. Can anyone PLEASE help me? Much thanks in advance.
Cross Country Films
NYC
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