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I’m excited about P2, or maybe not, yes I am, or I don’t know………
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[Ed] “Tape or hard drive “backup” seems like a big step backwards to my workflow….
…You can’t just look at the cost of a hard drive, you have to factor in the time you’ll spend backing all of it up for archiving. Then there’s the time in the field dumping (at 4 minutes a time) to the hard drive.”Well, I think it’s safe to assume that backing your footage up to hard drives for archiving will be faster than realtime. When you consider all the time you would have spent logging and capturing that footage had you shot on tape, the time spent archiving doesn’t seem all that bad.
The way I imagine my workflow going would be to dump the P2 cards to an external drive in the field. Once I get into the edit room, I could ‘COPY’ that footage onto my system’s RAID to perform the edit. Then I’ve still got the original files on the external drive as an archive, so there is no extra time spent ‘archiving’ in post.
Copying the files onto a RAID will take some time, but it will be faster than realtime, which means it will be faster than the time I would have spent logging/capturing that footage.
Essentially, the external drives will be treated the same way I treat tape today. The advantage is that I have nonlinear and immediate access to that footage at any time.
Right now though, the benefits seem to be for ENG type uses, not for long-form video. Having said all that about the downside, having a real HD format may be worth all of those disadvantages 🙂 “
I suppose it depends on what you mean by ‘long-form’
If you mean you require a lot of continuous long takes, you may be right.
If you simply mean you require a lot of footage…It depends on what your definition of ‘a lot’ of footage is.Either way, I think you’re right, “having a real HD format may be worth all of those disadvantages”
Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas -
Good point. That will balance things out some.
Ed[Luis Caffesse] “When you consider all the time you would have spent logging and capturing that footage had you shot on tape, the time spent archiving doesn’t seem all that bad. “
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Just a general reply to some of the posts in this thread.
I wish I had the reference in front of me but hard drives have a very long shelf life. I’m sure it was more than 50 years compared to tape, which I’ve see go bad in less than 10 years.
Blu-ray recorder/players will be out as early as this Summer.
If the object is to dump the P2s to Blu-ray, why not simply go for Sony’s expected HD Blu-ray-based camera. By the time you invest in enough P2s, it will be nearly the same price. Of course, Blu-ray recording will be ridiculously cheap in comparison. Then forget hard drives, etc.
Watch the characterizations of what is HD & what is not. Those are fighting words to dyed-in-the-wool HDVers. (Arguments include HD is anything better than SD; Anything that looks really good in the eye of the beholder; Anything that can discern fine lines compared to SD; especially in view that all HD is compressed) Besides, some might argue that 100mbs HD is not real HD when it comes to keys & titles… see, fighting words.)
Just playing devil’s advocate.
RBG
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[RBG] “If the object is to dump the P2s to Blu-ray, why not simply go for Sony’s expected HD Blu-ray-based camera. By the time you invest in enough P2s, it will be nearly the same price. Of course, Blu-ray recording will be ridiculously cheap in comparison. Then forget hard drives, etc.
Personally, I would rather archive to hard drives than to Blu Ray.
I’ve had more problems with corrupted data burned onto DVDs than I ever have with hard drives.Also, I prefer the idea of recording to a solid state media, as opposed to a spinning disc in the camera.
Lastly, without having any specs or price on a Sony HD Blu Ray camera, it seems hard to make any comparisson.
Watch the characterizations of what is HD & what is not.
While people can decide what they might consider HD and what they won’t, there is an objective standard as to what is considered “HD.” So whether or not somehting is ‘HD’ is really not up for debate.
But obviously all HD is not created equal, we’ve got numerous HD formats out there to choose from, and it’s up to each individual to decide for themselves which format suits their needs.
But you bring up a good point, each format should be measured on its own weight, and just because something may not suit our needs does not mean it is not “HD.”
Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas -
“So, gig for gig, when it comes to HD footage, hard drives will actually wind up being cheaper than HD tape”
Doesn’t that seem intuitively insane given tape & plastic vs sealed mechanical platters, motors & advanced electronics? I’m not complaining.
RBG
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Optical media is more reliable for archiving than hdd.
If hdd’s motor (or any other part) breaks you can’t read the disk.
If any part of optical drive breaks, you can change the drive and still read the disk.Mass market defines the price. Hdd’s are used everywhere, dvcproHD tapes only in few cameras.
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“Essentially, the external drives will be treated the same way I treat tape today” – Luis Caffesse
I’ve been reading through these P2 forums trying to understand the best workflow from shooting to archiving uisng P2 in place of tape. This put it all in perspective for me. Thanks Luis!
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“Essentially, the external drives will be treated the same way I treat tape today. The advantage is that I have nonlinear and immediate access to that footage at any time.”
The AJ-SPX800 has 5 P2 slots and it’s hot swappable. If, and only if, the AG-HVX200 has more than one slot, and it’s hot swappable as well, then it makes the amount of continuous footage shot limited only to the size of your external hard drive.
You will need more than one P2 card.
And yes, you will need someone to do the swapping while the shooting is taking place. The operator can’t do it, but I do know that ACs are capable of learning new tricks. Don’t have an AC position in the budget?
Pay a bright PA $50 more to do the swapping for you. They have the tech skills. Many of them are building their own computers to play games on.
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[Charlie Hohensilt] “… Pay a bright PA $50 more to do the swapping for you. They have the tech skills. Many of them are building their own computers to play games on.”
Wee! The race to the bottom begins! 😉
No offense intended, Charlie, and you may be absolutely correct. However, this is _exactly_ what I worry about concerning P2-style production data security.
IMHO, only a Qualified Person In Charge (_not_ a lowly production assistant, bright or otherwise) should be handling precious, hard-won, expensive-to-produce, sometimes impossible-to-reproduce video data.
For more on this topic than you may ever want to read >grin<, please refer to previous threads here in the P2 forum. Again, I hear you, and I mean no offense, but I strongly disagree with your recommendation. You may believe differently, and that's OK. All the best, - Peter Just a friendly reminder to all: Please consider filling-in your COW user profile information so we have a better idea who you are, where you're from, and so forth. It's the friendly thing to do. Thanks!
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[Peter DeCrescenzo] “IMHO, only a Qualified Person In Charge (_not_ a lowly production assistant, bright or otherwise) should be handling precious, hard-won, expensive-to-produce, sometimes impossible-to-reproduce video data. “
I think people are making WAY too much of this.
Since when do we get a “Qualified Person In Charge” to hand the precious, hard-won, expensive-to-reproduce, sometimes impossible-to-reproduce film on feature sets?The camera loader is the lowest paid position on the camera crew.
Not really a highly trained and respected position.I’m not saying you can grab any bum off the street….
But this isn’t rocket science.Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas
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