Ideas on a new camera (to work with Vegas 9)

[Danny Hays]

Hi Angelo Mike,
I found an easy way to send larger files than any email service permits. I have uploaded a file 1080 60p.mts to Vimeo. With a Vimeo, (Non Plus) accaount, you can uplaod a file and for two weeks I think allows you to download that file before they re-encoded it to 1280 x 720 mp4. Here’s that Vimeo link.

https://vimeo.com/22366811

Scroll down a litle and click download, and it should still say 1920 x 1080 .mts. Download the file.

So you can see how it edits in Vegas, I embedded a pic on how to make a custom project settings template since Vegas doesn’t have one to handle the 60p. This is just the video tab. On the audio tab I switched the audio to 48K and if you change it from stereo to 5.1 surround, and dropp this file on the timeline, all 6 tracks show up. The onboard mic is by default set to 5.1 in the touch screen menu.

To play back this file try Win media player 11. If it stutters, try media player clasic, which doesn’t come with Win 7 Ultimatte 64 bit, so here’s a link for a free download if it.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/

Every PC is diffferent. My buddy has a six core WIn 7 64bit Premuim and his plays the .mts files perfect with MP11 where my Win 7 Ulltimats 64 bit won’t, but does with media player classic. Either way the camera plays the files flallessy as does the HDWriter software that comes with the camera.

If you want to render at 60p, you will need to make custom render settings as well. I’ll post pics if you need on how to do that.
Please post back and let everybody know what you think.
I hope this helps, Danny Hays

[Danny Hays]

Oops I forgot. right click on the Vimeo video and click on (Watch in HD on Vimeo) in order to see the download button. Enjoy

[Danny Hays]

As far as the 24p, I haven’t tried it since the 60p looks so good. I can always render to that from the 60p, but have a higher quality file for other format renders.

[Angelo Mike]

Thanks very much, Danny. I’m rendering footage tonight so I’ll get started on this tomorrow.

If I render a video at 60 fps from the TM700, does it play back at 60 fps on DVD or on Youtube or Vimeo?

I could almost live with my Canon Vixia HV30’s ability to shoot 24fps footage with Neoscene, but even then I occasionally see some deinterlacing artifacts. I suppose that will be an issue on any camera, but going tapeless is a big plus, as well as a better overall picture and low light capability.

Also, I didn’t initially look into them since I just assumed any Vixia would be the same as my current one, but I’ve been looking into Canon Vixia HF20, HF200, and a few others, and they seem like a step forward, especially with a really low price on used and refurbished ones. Like, I could buy ten of them, and they weigh a few ounces each. I’d even overlook the lack of xlr inputs. My main issue, then, is finding one with a lot of storage capacity, or at least dual memory card slots.

The HF20 has a lot of menu controls like my HV30 (as opposed to manual ones), but I’d live with that for its price, features, and 24GB hard drive. But it only has one memory card slot, meaning no continuous shooting.

The HF200 has two memory card slots but is all touch screen, which I don’t like. I’ve even resisted it on my phone.

And then there’s the TM700, which I’m still learning about.

[Danny Hays]

Youtube and Vimeo, no as of now, Don’t see it coming either, too few viewers for the bandwidth req. But 720 60p is a bluray supported format, and I heard you can with a blu-ray burner, can burn about 20 min of HD on a regular DVD with Vegas. I’m not sure if a 1080 60p data DVD would play it or not. If your computer plays them and your DVDrom is fast enough,,, I gotta try that. I personally hate visable interlacing. I do alot of chromakeying and progressive is the only way to go when doing that. The TM700 at the 60p setting gives you (depending if you setup the camera right, good lighting and fast shutter speed) 60 perfect pictures every second and Keys fantastic.
The chromakeyer in Vegas without perfect lighting is useless in my opinion. After Effects in versions 7 and later come with Keylight. Keylight is top notch. Again, let us know what you do and think. It will help other readers here and the Cow. Moooo!

[Angelo Mike]

Ok, I got it in my timeline and it looks great. Eerily so because of the 60fps movement, which is almost unsettling because I’m not used to seeing it. I kind of don’t like the aesthetic, actually, and kind of prefer the gaps between frames in 24fps. Then again, when DVDs first came out I remember opposing those, too, because they lacked the intimacy of physical tape.

I tried rendering some footage in MP4 at 30fps and it looks great as well. What are the special render settings you want me to try?

[Dave Haynie]

24p is fine. The one issue is that, like every tape-based camcorder, the TM700 stores 24p as 60i with pulldown. That’s an annoyance, and technically, it could use a bit less compression if it kept it as “native” 24p, since the duplicated fields would not be necessary. This seems to be an act of intentional sabotage by Panasonic — older consumer models, like my daughter’s SD9, as well as higher end models like my HMC40, store in native 24p.

The main reason this is annoying is that Vegas doesn’t detect that it’s 24p in pulldown, so you need some other means of dealing with it. I use Cineform, which does understand the 24p in a 60i wrapper for pretty much every camera.

The other annoyance in the TM700 is that there are not one, not two, but THREE separate mechanisms for setting your shooting mode. On the HMC40, there’s an on-screen pop-up that lets me select any resolution and bitrate that’s supported: 1080/60i, 1080/24p/ 720/60p, whatever. That menu exists on the TM700 too, but it only offers 1080/60i modes there. If you want 1080/60p, you press a button near the top of the camera. If you want 1080/24p, you have to dig down a little and set “Cinema” mode.

I have used 24p and found it good. In particular, when it’s dark, I can shoot at 1/24th sec. if necessary.. big advantage over 1/60th min that’s really needed for 60i.

-Dave

[Danny Hays]

Your not seeing 1080 60p from the timeline of Vegas. Have you played the file with wedia player 11 or classic? If your into seeing the gaps between 24 fps, there’s a setting for that, or mayby it’s not the camera for you.

[Angelo Mike]

Yes, I played it on Windows Media Player classic. It ran smoothly and looks great.

I’ll still consider the camera. But with used Vixia HF 20’s going for about $400, I may just go with that or another version of the Vixia.

[Angelo Mike]

Actually, with the HF S21 doing native 24fps and with a 64GB hard drive, I’ll be going for that.

Thanks again.