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I think I’m done
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[Rob Grauert] ”
Whaaat? No way, man.Sure, anyone can pick up a pirated version of FCP, but I wouldn’t call that entry.”
Rob, you didn’t come close to getting the point. I wasn’t discussing obtaining a job; I know that it is difficult. I was making the point that the technology involved in making a video today is immeasurably easier than it was 20+ years ago.
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“I was making the point that the technology involved in making a video today is immeasurably easier than it was 20+ years ago.”
ahh, my mistake. You’re right though. Man, I hate working on projects where some kid was hired shoot just because he has an HVX…
Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com -
Glen Montgomery, I didn’t quote you because my comment refers to your entire post … very well said. To me, you sound precisely like the type of young person we all wish there were more of. One of my points in my previous post was that, at least in my experience, you are part of the minority group in that regard … but that’s ok … it’s always been that way and it’s probably supposed to be that way. So, having to weed through the majority is unavoidable, which makes for a lot of frustration.
By the way, in my opinion, that seems to also apply to the other young guys who have chimed in like David Sikes and Rob Grauert … just by taking the initiative to intelligently participate in these types of discussions, you seem to show that you’re not part of the majority we grumpy old men refer to when we rant about the younger generations’ common character flaws.
[Bob Cole] “I think the problem is one of expectations.” “With the ease of entry today, the field has attracted people who don’t have to work that hard to obtain results. They expect to obtain results without much effort.”
Very good point. That’s what I was getting at with my “EZ-button generation” comment. In my opinion, this “ease of entry” issue primarily results from technology advances, which are obviously beneficial to all, but also inherently come with this major drawback.
[Bob Cole] “your bad experiences may also have something to do with the kind of work you do (corporate, right?)”
While I understand your point there, I respectfully disagree somewhat. The initial topic refers to things like reliability, work ethic, drive, etc., which in my opinion, are entirely reasonable expectations whether in corporate or Hollywood. I know you weren’t referring specifically to my comments, but even so, this is what I mean … I do work in corporate now, but spent about two-thirds of my total career in the ‘real’ production world and have found the same issues to be equally prevalent in both. I understand that most don’t aspire to work in corporate production, but at the same time, if someone feels a particular assignment is beneath them, perhaps they shouldn’t accept it, rather than accept it and not show or show only to do a poor job (the two initial issues).
Personally, the conclusion I drew on this subject long ago is this…
Lack of integrity, work ethic, etc. definitely exists in people of all ages since young people inevitably get older and core character flaws generally don’t change much. At the same time, my experience has been that those issues are ever-increasingly more prevalent in younger generations (likely due to that “ease of entry” issue). Even so, I for one by no means have given up on any entire generation or suggest that anyone else do that … only that we accept that it has always been difficult (and probably will continue to be increasingly difficult) to weed through the majority to find the minority above-average individuals. -
The point that should be made to all the Gen “y” or younger, heck, forget about generations. The point to be made for anybody who started reading this thread for Nick’s shocking title and for anyone who is concerned with the phenomenon of the thread’s subject matter is “Listen to Bob.” By having the integrity to show up when you say you will goes miles. And then, do good work by following the example of how hard your employer or clients (for you freelancers) are working.
In this business and many others, we all know that getting work is not really about what you can do, but who your connected to though your friends or professional networks. But, keeping work once you have it is directly related to “what you can do, and HOW you do it.”
We all choose our attitudes, and that carries over into our work environments.
As a parent and employer of some Gen “Y’s,” It is true that I see the entitlement, the lazy-ness, the disrespect ect. more often than I see integrity and strong work ethics, however, it makes the individuals who posses the qualities we are all expecting good kids to have, stand out from the crowd.
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We’ve had many interns and student workers over the years, and I’ve seen variations of “Goofus and Gallant” many times. Definitely saw a few with the “entitlement mentality”; they quit the job within days, sometimes hours, after we had the temerity to ask them to help file some tapes in the tape library. We had one come in expecting to direct live shows on her first day, though she’d never had any practical experience in any production position, as far as we could tell. Another post-grad type bitched daily about the cost of the parking meters. Only later did I learn he was getting a fat stipend the whole time he was getting a college-level Tv production course’s worth of training from us for free.
I will say that our best experiences were consistently with the high schoolers and not the college or postgrad students. The high schoolers were somewhat pre-filtered by the program for academic excellence and maturity level and ability to commit, before we got them and generally had to be honor students and go-getters just to qualify for our program. The program also made them lie with house aprents in an exchange-student type arrangement for an entire semester, so for them this was very much like a simulation of their first job and apartment after college, while still only juniors or seniors in high school. Plus, they still had school homework to do every week. I like their energy and inquisitiveness and creativity. In teaching them the ropes, they often ask things that force me to re-appraise what I am teaching them, and question if there are better ways to do something today than what we do out of long-ingrained habit.
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[Mark Suszko] “I will say that our best experiences were consistently with the high schoolers and not the college or postgrad students.”
We had an incredible 16 year old intern last summer who was introduced to us by our local Apple Store. She was already up to speed on Final Cut Pro and helped out in logging and even digitizing our Foul Water feature documentary. We got her all set up with an internship program through her high school and I would definitely hire her back as soon as she goes through college.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.
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Is the problem with Gen-Y specifically, or is it just about being 20-something? I wonder if it seems like it’s “20 somethings these days” because you are now in a position to be hiring them and be confronted with the problem. Did you have a noticeably better experience hiring Gen-Xers 10 years ago?
I would think that the problem of lazy, entitled youth might be prevalent for any generation born since the 50s, with the growth of a middle class who can afford to pay their children’s way through college. Gen-Y isn’t the first to be able to graduate from college without needing to hold down a real job along the way.
They might have it better themselves though, when it comes time for them to hire the kids who are just now starting Jr. High during the recession.
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[Ian Johnson] “I would think that the problem of lazy, entitled youth might be prevalent for any generation born since the 50s, with the growth of a middle class who can afford to pay their children’s way through college. Gen-Y isn’t the first to be able to graduate from college without needing to hold down a real job along the way.”
In my experience, Ian, this seemed to happen with the “but that will hurt their self-esteem, so give them all a trophy and don’t keep score” generation raised under psychological insanity of the 1970s and on — at least here in America where political correctness added itself to the original crazy idea and took it into absolute insanity.
But that is my opinion, and I (for one) do not believe that it’s going to get better for them in the days ahead, as the Entitlement Generation is going to have to compete on a world-interconnected stage against the cream of the crop of India, China, Singapore, Malaysia, and a myriad of other countries fighting for their place in the world and who are driven and don’t believe the world owes them a living. So, they’ll take it. I look at most of the Gen Y’ers I know, and that thought scares me.
I just do not believe for a second that teaching kids to play T-ball and hand ’em all a trophy “because there are no winners or losers, you are all winners” did anything to make the Entitlement Generation ready for the real world. No generation was ever so shielded from reality and fed so much of its own “Kool-Aid of self importance” to drink.
Thankfully, there are a handful of exceptions.
That’s my opinion.
Ronald Lindeboom
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[Ronald Lindeboom] “No generation was ever so shielded from reality”
In a way this reminds me of the old “shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations” adage.
The first generation makes the money; the second spends it; the third has to roll up its shirtsleeves and make their own way in the world.
Perhaps we in the U.S. (and perhaps Europe) are about to see the shift from the second to the third generation.
Painful. But verrrry interesting.
Bob C
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I gotta say Ron’s opinion seems right on target.
Here is a ‘broad brush’ painting of what I see.
There seems to be a HUGE sense of entitlement among the younger editors/crew/shooters, etc.
The expression “Pay your dues”, and respect is something completely foreign to many. They expect to get the good shift, do the big jobs, with big clients, right out of the box, just because they have a piece of paper. Their entire life has been filled with everyone telling them how special they are, and now they are too good to do the mundane and ordinary, have a short attention span, and are more interested in their iphone than in ‘going the extra mile’. They show up to job interviews in shorts and T-shirts, covered with tat’s, and piercings, call the boss “dude”, and expect us to trust them with our best clients.
Then add the attitude that they know it all, which is nothing new among young people, and you get to where we are.
I saw a post further up the page that had mentioned something about if you put Photoshop, or FCP in your resume’, make sure you know it inside and out. Well I have to disagree with that concept, when it comes to the young editors. Certification, knowing every plug-in, and having every keyboard short-cut committed to memory, does not an editor make. If your in the ballpark on skills, but you hit a home run on attitude, your the winner in my book.
That is some of what you learn when your ‘paying your dues’. Reliability, problem solving, self reliance, decisiveness, style(your own), patience, and people skills, among other things. You don’t learn that from a book, or a course. And you don’t learn it overnight.
So what we have now is a glut of folks, that their special because they ‘know’ FCP, AE, Avid, or whatever expect a high paying gig. They only problem with that expectation, is that there are a million others out there, just like them. It’s a buyers market, with a glut of product. And most of the product out there is average, at best. Clients, employers and others know this. Is it any wonder why wages are down?
If this economy keeps going the way it is, the winners won’t be the guy with the piece of paper, flashy reel, and a sense of entitlement. It will be the guy that shows up on time, delivers a days worth of work, for a reasonable rate, without all the drama, and shows his boss/client/coworkers some respect. Be that guy, and you will do ok.
I know there folks out there that are going to completely disagree with this, but some day they will be the one writing the checks, and then the light bulb will go on.Scott Sheriff
Director
SST Digital Media
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com
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