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I QUIT…. Working for nothing.
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Excellent post Walter. This has been a fascinating debate, but I don’t agree with Andy or scott-this industry isn’t in terminal decline and attributing luck to those who succeed isnt right.
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[Walter Soyka] “Where is there anger?”
I would point out something Ron wrote to Andy, “So please go away and make room for those who can listen and learn. You are beyond help.” Not trying to single out Ron. There were other snarky remarks. But I would debate the necessity of this type of comment at all.
To paraphrase something I said to Andy, I can’t believe the lengths that many will go through to help undeserving noobs that are too lazy to RTFM, and for guys like him, the best we can offer is platitudes and condescension. Aren’t we supposed to be the professionals?
I wonder when was the last time anyone of the ‘big guns’ with all the work turned someone on to a client, some overflow work, or a gig they didn’t have time for?Scott Sheriff
SST Digital Media
Multi-Camera Director, VFX and Post ProductionThe Affordable Camera Dolly is your just right solution!
“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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Scott.
Seems I had the same idea as you.
Home studio.. Equipment all paid for.. No overheads.
Thinking about it… We will probably be the ones who come out on top in the long run.
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[Scott Sheriff] “At times I’m perplexed by what goes on here.
Some Cow regulars will knock each other over in the rush to be first to help some undeserving noob that could easily self-help, by simply reading the manual. And then turn around and treat real colleagues that deserve help rather poorly. None of which is doing any of us any good, but I think it makes some them feel better. It’s rather sad.”I feel like I read a different thread than you and Andy did. I saw a number of COW members give advice (some as straight up suggestions and others in the form of personal anecdotes) to which Andy basically replied, and I’m paraphrasing here, “You’re wrong, you’re delusional, we’re doomed. Why can no one else understand that we are all doomed, Doomed, DOOMED!” At which point some people got snarky because it appeared that Andy just wanted to b*tch and was getting irritated that no one was jumping onto his doomed bandwagon to the abyss and when internet rants backfire they almost always do so in a spectacular fashion (case in point, this thread).
I hope my lighting of a match doesn’t interfere with anyone else’s cursing of the darkness. 😉
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[Andy jackson] “It seems I am getting alot of flack from various members for my opinions. Some seem to be getting very personal.”
If you wish to avoid personal jabs, Andy, you might try actually interacting respectfully with those who have been trying to help you see more than the perspective you seem unwilling to modify.
Some people went to great length to lay out chapter and verse of the points they were presenting and in most every case that I saw, you didn’t even dignify them with a response. Rather, you looked for the simple “I’m telling you it’s going to hell” exchanges, so that you could jump right back into the rut and keep the bitchfest going.
Then you made quite a few personal jabs calling people delusional and other such not-quite-pats-on-the-back remarks questioning even their understanding of this industry.
It has always befuddled me how some people feel they have a God-given right to do stuff like that but when you call them on it, they hate it and get all “martyr” on you and turn the bitchfest into a sobfest. I just shake my head at it…
You are free to think what you like but that doesn’t always make it so.
Some people here gave you GREAT and VALUABLE advice that you scorned like it came with herpes.
You do not really want to change your outlook, you really just want people to agree with your views and are adamant that they should. It isn’t going to happen here, that much I can guarantee you.
And as for LUCK being the great arbiter of who succeeds and who doesn’t: after three bouts of pneumonia, with fried lungs so bad that afterwards I’d get the flu for three to four months and I had no money and no savings and no insurance and nothing left to act on — I’ll tell you, to quote Booker T’s great old blues song, “Born Under a Bad Sign,” I will tell you that I felt just like that song, which laments: “If it wasn’t for bad luck, I wouldn’t have no luck at all.”
But life is hard and I don’t lay down for it — at least not for long. You have to look for an answer to find one and that is something that not everyone is open to. Some just want to complain and find those willing to agree with them. The COW has never really been that kind of place. Sorry.
Best regards,
Ronald Lindeboom
CEO Emeritus, Creative COW LLC
Publisher Emeritus, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.netCreativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.
“Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm.” – Woody Allen
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those that matter, don’t mind — and those that mind, don’t matter.” – Dr. Seuss
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I feel the only reason there is no honest negativity here by most of the cow leaders is due to the fact they do not want to upset and lose their advertising sponsors.
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I’m not a leader, I have no sponsors and I don’t give two craps who I upset. I’m positive because I’m not built to be any other way. I believe in my business.
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[Scott Sheriff] “I would point out something Ron wrote to Andy, “So please go away and make room for those who can listen and learn. You are beyond help.” Not trying to single out Ron. There were other snarky remarks. But I would debate the necessity of this type of comment at all.”
I notice Scott that you didn’t bother to quote ALL (or even any) of my copious lead-up and the reasons for what I said to Andy. It was hardly baseless and by the time I got to that part of my comments, I had laid out quite a breadcrumb trail of both the nasty things that Andy had said to people, as well as many of the people and the comments they made trying to help him. He wanted none of it and just insulted them as delusional (and you add the further insult in your reply to Walter Soyka by calling them “fearful and just whistling in the graveyard”). He also called many here not only delusional but “in denial” that the industry was “doomed.” The industry is definitely in transition and flux but doomed is a pretty bold statement. Yes, people will get hurt without a doubt. The market will bring new people to the fore while some will fall by the wayside. It has always been like this and it looks like Andy is well on his way to becoming one of them.
Do I wish that on him? No. But after 17 years of building forums, I can spot someone on the way up and someone on the way out, pretty easily at this point. I do not believe that any of the others here wish Andy to fail either. But after many have tried to help, he just spits in their faces and kicks them in the teeth with his remarks that they are delusional and in denial. You reduced them to whistlers in the graveyard, offering platitudes. Want proof, read on…
[Scott Sheriff] “To paraphrase something I said to Andy, I can’t believe the lengths that many will go through to help undeserving noobs that are too lazy to RTFM, and for guys like him, the best we can offer is platitudes and condescension.”
Your chide us for what your see as undeserved remarks but you yourself cite “noobs” as “undeserving”? How do you decide who is deserving and who isn’t? Just curious about your yardstick.
Then you add your own insults, Scott — taking things that people have learned at great cost to themselves over a period of years and which some offered point-by-point for free — yet you reduce it to platitudes? Good grief, excuse me for noticing but these two fall under the classic definition of a hypocrite. And you wish to feign that we are the ones doing the insulting? (Boomer shakes his head here in disbelief.)
[Scott Sheriff] “Aren’t we supposed to be the professionals? I wonder when was the last time anyone of the ‘big guns’ with all the work turned someone on to a client, some overflow work, or a gig they didn’t have time for?”
Do you have the slightest idea of how much great paying work that Kathlyn and I have farmed out over the years? Without even asking for or getting a single dime back in referral fees or commissions? You need to stop judging others by what you think is true and maybe learn from some of those who are being quite successful in trying times and who are trying to help others.
Are times bad? You bet. Is the industry in transition and a heavy period of flux? Without a doubt.
But you insult people with attributing it mostly to luck. Wow. Do you even know what it’s like to build a magazine when you’ve had 20 years of ear infections and multiple bouts of pneumonia and do it all without money (if we had screwed up once, the COW wouldn’t be here today), without insurance and without the aid of antibiotics because they quit working about 6 or 7 years ago. Where is luck in THAT picture? — and since you seem to have all of the answers and don’t want platitudes, I will cite one anyway: good things come to those who wait. Not most of the time. I opt for get in the ring and quit doing the same thing over and over that isn’t working and yet you keep doing it expecting a different outcome. Einstein said to repeat the same thing that didn’t work expecting it to suddenly start working is insanity.
Since you guys don’t mind calling us fearing delusional people with no answers and just offering platitudes as we whistle our way through the graveyard in the dark, please accept my post as no more or less than exactly what you and Andy Jackson have done in this thread.
Don’t like it? As I said, I stay out of this stuff and only jump in maybe once every year or two — maybe three. This is really rare but when I read this thread and the callous disrespect that you and Andy are giving some great people here who have written in-depth answers based on their experience — things that work which you call nothing more than platitudes — don’t be surprised that you became the recipient of this year’s singular “visit” by me.
And no, I am not whistling in any graveyard because I am not fearful and I would hardly call hard lessons learned, platitudes.
Best regards,
Ronald Lindeboom
CEO Emeritus, Creative COW LLC
Publisher Emeritus, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.netCreativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.
“Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm.” – Woody Allen
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those that matter, don’t mind — and those that mind, don’t matter.” – Dr. Seuss
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I should add….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b97zJxKEqAk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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[Tom Sefton] “but I don’t agree with Andy or scott-this industry isn’t in terminal decline”
Check out this WSJ article.
https://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/03/28/top-10-dying-industries/So if you think the video production biz is still viable, and don’t think the industry is in a terminal decline, let me ask you a question.
Scenario:
Your best friend, sibling, adult child or other close person that values your opinion, came to you and said they were going to take their life savings, and get an additional business loan leveraged against the equity in their home, and use that money to start a brick and mortar video production business. Could you look them in the eye and tell them this is a good idea with a lot of future potential? And it doesn’t matter if they know anything personally about how to edit, etc. Because as business owners they can hire those people. It is strictly about is getting into the production business a good idea, and you say?
Oh, and you can’t dodge the question by suggesting they do support, gear sales, IT or anything like that. Because when I hear you and others say all is fine in the world of production (from your perspective), I’m not thinking IT, gear sales, selling plugins to noobs, or whatever. I’m thinking, and talking about hands on video production, as in shooting and post work for others.Scott Sheriff
SST Digital Media
Multi-Camera Director, VFX and Post ProductionThe Affordable Camera Dolly is your just right solution!
“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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