I have a question for a change, Re: letters of rec

[Chris Blair]

I’m 47 and have worked in this business for 25 years, and I think that practice has become outdated in a lot of places around the country. I think most company owners, HR managers or anyone that hires people realizes that letters of recommendation are going to say wonderful things about the prospective employee. They don’t usually hold much weight with me.

I don’t even look that closely at resumes and cover letters (unless of course they’re poorly written with the typos others have mentioned). I rely much more on checking to make sure an applicant actually did the things he/she says they did. Graduated from XYZ college; actually shot the video that’s on their demo; actually designed the graphics etc. And I rely on asking potential employees how they would go about accomplishing a project (usually a real project that we’ve already completed or something that’s coming up). And I’ve even given prospective employees a small project to complete (with PLENTY of time to do it), with access to equipment, computers, software etc.

That process alone tells me if the person understands how to look at a problem, work through a solution, and deliver a solid piece of work without needing constant attention from others. A letter of recommendation, sealed or not, doesn’t tell me any of that.

Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com

[Mike Cohen]

“references upon request” has become a cliche, still used on many resumes.
I agree that references are always going to say cheery things.
However an e-mail from a business owner saying “a guy who sometimes works for me is very good, give him a shot” goes farther than “Joe Smith? Yeah he worked here.”
But it is true, meeting a person and having a conversation is the best way to see what someone is made of. Software I can teach, our particular flavor of production I can also teach. But I cannot teach someone how to be mature and professional.

Mike

[Steve Kownacki]

They gotta have passion and enthusiasm. That’s the most difficult thing to teach. Having them come in, work for a few hours and observing really let’s you know your starting point.

I had one young guy actually tell me he had nothing else to learn. I think I know about 1/10 of 1% of what there is to know and I still learn something every day.

Maybe I should have hired him.

Steve

Being rich has nothing to do with wealth.

[Mike Cohen]

Years ago we were having a meeting and the issue of our e-mail provider came up. Our VP at the time suggested switching to a different host, and our IT guy replied, “I like the web mail software we have. I’m 40 years old, I don’t want to learn anything else.”
We should have fired him on the spot, but that was the first nail in his coffin. So this was an older guy talking like a kid.

Just my silly anecdote.

Mike

[Bob Cole]

Your stance is admirable but perhaps outdated and even dangerous. Who reads letters anymore? And, why would you want to put anything in writing?

I’d just offer to make myself available by phone should someone want to check references. Allegedly, you incur some legal liability for sharing any information that could damage an applicant’s job prospects. Easier to give someone the “drift” on the phone. I’ve heard it — the former boss who says “He did exactly what he had to do,” meaning, “What a slacker!”

I suspect that the person whom you inform of your sealed envelope policy thinks to himself, “Damn! He must hate me!” Just out of curiosity, how many of those people actually give you the envelope?

Bob C

[Mark Suszko]

So far, Bob, all of them. And a couple, repeatedly, as they tried for different jobs. Out of curiosity I forwarded the question to a college friend who works a career in HR and she was 100 percent for it, for what that’s worth. The issue, she said, becomes more important the bigger the job is; you might not bother doing it for a teenage burger-flipper, but for someone pursuing a career track job, yes.

The legal troubles that I’ve seen in google searches of the topic tend to come up when it is not clear who can say what in a person’s written employment file, and who can see that information and how long it is kept. The ugliest incidents arise when someone writes down a subjective statement that is hard to verify. Besides official annual or quarterly evaluations or reviews, there may also be memos in there detailing a specific incident. Such memos are generally one-sided on the part of the writer, and sometimes written in anger, and so I’d want to hear or read a candidate’s response to the memo before passing judgement. But do you even get to know that’s in there?

Depending on if you work for government or private business, the office policy may be to give up just the bare minimum objective data of dates worked, title, and amount of pay over the phone, and refer everything else to HR. Even if the guy was terrific and the favorite of everyone there. Which can look weird if you’d been bragging on your past there and all they say is a curt “Yes, he was here”. As a potential employer you want a sense of if the person left on good terms or not and the curt response may make you suspect the worst. Whatever disciplinary issues or other such baggage the employee had is buried, lest the ex-employee come back and sue for libel or slander. The suit may be without merit, but in this litigious society often the mere threat or possibility is enough to stifle any subjective opinion about the ex-employee.

Hiring sure is a guessing game when you are trying to judge applicants. I think the sealed private reference letter can help, and certainly can’t hurt.

[Bob Cole]

[Mark Suszko] “I think the sealed private reference letter can help, and certainly can’t hurt.”

Glad this works for you. But I was addressing your legal liability. Nothing’s private, even a “sealed private reference letter.” Any negative statement (especially one that you put in writing) could be used against you.

Bob C