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HVX200 1080i 24pA comes into FCP as 1080p30
I have been shooting footage using the HVX200 at 1080i 24pA for a particular client for several years. This client prefers to shoot in this format because he often generates separate 20.97fps 60i and 23.98fps 24p versions of his shots for various output purposes.
Again, for several years, I have been using Final Cut Pro’s “Log And Transfer” to take the 1080i 24pA P2 files and convert them into both 1080i 60 as well as 23.98p QuickTimes. To produce the latter, I check the box labeled “Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicate Frames” in the “Log And Transfer preferences.” To produce the former, I simply leave that box un-checked.
Here’s my problem:
Now, all of a sudden, while the 23.98 versions of the clips come into FCP just fine, the 60i versions are inexplicably coming in as “1080p30.” I have no idea what changed (new version of QuickTime? Final Cut Pro update?) but I need to figure out how to make Final Cut Pro return to the old way of generating 1080i 60 QuickTimes, as it used to for many prior projects!
If anybody can shed some light on this vexing issue, I would very much appreciate it! Thanks in advance for your help!
– Jordan
Jordan Livingston
jo****@*******ES.com
(415) 342-3143JLP / DIGILOID
https://www.JLPMOVIES.com
https://www.DIGILOID.com -
11 Replies
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Yes, this appears to be a bug as many people have reported this. To make 1080i Quicktime, simply make the field order of the clip Upper First and edit in an Upper First timeline.
Altough, 24pA was meant to be able to eaily remove the pulldown and won’t necessarily make the smooth playback of regular 3:2. You can always edit @ 24 and add proper 3:2 on output. That would be the cleanest way to go about it, in my opinion.
Jeremy
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[Jordan Livingston] “Crazy that Apple has a bug which breaks advertised functionality that many were accustomed to! “
I would leave feedback to apple.
[Jordan Livingston] “In any event, how do I change the filed dominance of my “1080p30” clips to “upper?” “
For the clips in your browser, simply find the “field dom” column and then select as many clips as you can, right click (or option click) and choose Upper from the drop down list.
For clips in your timeline select all, right click and choose item properties > format. Find the field dom row and change every media clips field dom to Upper.
[Jordan Livingston] “Will that allow for editing on a 1080i60 timeline without rendering? “
Your timeline will probably still have a Compressor of 1080p30, but you are essentially editing/rendering 60i, yes.
[Jordan Livingston] “Also, is the pulldown the same as if Final Cut Pro were interpreting the footage as 60i to begin with? “
No, 24pA has a pulldown of 2:3:3:2 (the A stands for advanced pulldown). Standard pulldown is 3:2. 24pA was made to be able to easily remove the pulldown without rebuilding any frames. If was designed to be removed, not to be played back smoothly. That’s what regular 3:2 is for.
Jeremy
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Dear Jeremy,
Crazy that Apple has a bug which breaks advertised functionality that many were accustomed to!
In any event, how do I change the filed dominance of my “1080p30” clips to “upper?”
Will that allow for editing on a 1080i60 timeline without rendering?
Also, is the pulldown the same as if Final Cut Pro were interpreting the footage as 60i to begin with?
Thanks!
– Jordan
Jordan Livingston
jordan@JLPMOVIES.com
(415) 342-3143JLP / DIGILOID
https://www.JLPMOVIES.com
https://www.DIGILOID.com -
Hi Jeremy,
Thanks again for getting back to me…
What would happen in this scenario if 3rd party 29.97 / 60i B-Roll were added onto the timeline? Would that material then need to be rendered to match the “30p compressor?”
– Jordan
Jordan Livingston
jordan@JLPMOVIES.com
(415) 342-3143JLP / DIGILOID
https://www.JLPMOVIES.com
https://www.DIGILOID.com -
Hmm, maybe. I’d have to check that out. My feeling is yes.
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[Jeremy Garchow] ”
[Jordan Livingston] “Will that allow for editing on a 1080i60 timeline without rendering? ”
Your timeline will probably still have a Compressor of 1080p30, but you are essentially editing/rendering 60i, yes.
“Dumb question for you jordan- your workflow has me very confused.
What are you editing?:
Why are you trying to handle 30p (29.97) and mix with 60i footage Especially when state that you are working with 24pA cadence == a format was not intended for editing use in any NLE with the pulldown intact.
Editing with pulldown intact can cause serious issues with some deliveries as many of the newest HD consumer sets can remove pulldown without asking you causing some rather unusual cadence errors on delivery.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
Hi Jeremy,
My client loves 24pA because he shoots everything that way and then decides later if he wants to “Log and Transfer” in 60i or in 23.98, depending on the desired output. For example, he may edit a show in 60i because he knows its going straight to broadcast, or, he might edit in 23.98 for all other purposes, such as events and festivals, etc.
In any event, it USED to be that if you shot in 24pA, you would use Final Cut Pro’s “Log And Transfer” and decided to either “Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicate Frames” OR not. The former resulted in 23.98 footage, the latter resulted in 60i footage – both from the same 24pA P2 source!
Now, however, something has changed in Final Cut, where it interprets the footage as 30p when you do not select “Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicate Frames.” This results in a stuttery “look,” as the footage is clearly not 30p – it is 60i with pulldown inserted.
The workflow, in the good old days, was simply to edit this in a 60i timeline, which could be combined with SD footage, such as DigiBeta and even DV. Now, however, it seems that Final Cut Pro won’t make this possible as it is interpreting the clips incorrectly as 30p, rather than the intended 60i.
Does that help clarify the problem? I hope Apple gets wind of this and fixes the bug ASAP! I do understand that the “Advanced Pulldown” can cause problems with certain playback devices, but my client was enamored by the ability to generate 60i and 23.98 from the same P2 materials – even though he usually needs to be working in 60i.
– Jordan
Jordan Livingston
jordan@JLPMOVIES.com
(415) 342-3143JLP / DIGILOID
https://www.JLPMOVIES.com
https://www.DIGILOID.com -
[Jordan Livingston] “Now, however, something has changed in Final Cut, where it interprets the footage as 30p when you do not select “Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicate Frames.” This results in a stuttery “look,” as the footage is clearly not 30p – it is 60i with pulldown inserted. “
OK 30p is actually 30psf where each frame is divided into 2 fields to get 60i so that is why it does not look correct you have pulldown being treated as real frames.
have you tried
TOOLS > REMOVE Advanced Pulldown from the FCP Menu bar on the captured clips?
Have you run the Panasonic FRC which should remove the pulldown correctly?
there are multiple ways to extract the redundant frames including using Cinema Tools.
Have you tried all 3 of these methods for pulldown extraction after the footage has been transferred:?
[Jordan Livingston] “For example, he may edit a show in 60i because he knows its going straight to broadcast,”
That is a really really bad idea with 24pA HD footage. Since cutting across cadence can cause a huge number of issues like not passing QC, rejection from a network feed, etc… PBS stations reject some 24pA footage because of the dupe frames in the cadence.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
Hi Gary,
“Removed Advanced Pulldown” from FCP menu results in 23.98, not 60i.
Cinema Tools Batch Conform leaves the clips set at 30p.
I have not tried the Panasonic VFR tool yet, but I will let you know if I have success with that…
– Jordan
Jordan Livingston
jordan@JLPMOVIES.com
(415) 342-3143JLP / DIGILOID
https://www.JLPMOVIES.com
https://www.DIGILOID.com -
[Jordan Livingston] “Cinema Tools Batch Conform leaves the clips set at 30p.”
the correct conform process really needs to be done manually.
You can easily conform 30p to be 60i in CT.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php
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