HPX3000 or HPX2700? Rez v Slo

[Rod Paul]

Don’t know what you mean by “videoie”. What frame rate are you shooting at?

I have had a 3000 for a year (and also own a Varicam) and feel it has the best picture of any camcorder I have seen. If there is noise in a well exposed image, it has escaped me. I own several high end monitors.

The new Varicam will not shoot variable frame rate in 1080P, so these are separate discussions. AVC-I is undoubtedly a superior codec to DVCPRO HD.

Rod Paul

[Peter Corbett]

Thanks Paul,

Sorry; “videoie”. I couldn’t find the correct words I wanted, but I meant that super-clean Digi-beta video look that suits soaps and news magazine shows.

When I tested the 3000 and 2700 there seemed to be extra noise in the darker areas of the 3000 pictures, but it may have been the setup of the demo camera as most (all?) users report very low noise levels. I do lean towards the 3000 because of the resolution, the only real-world feature missing being over-cranking to 60P.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au

[Rod Paul]

The camera is definitely clean — meaning no noise. Video look is up to you in whatever setup you choose. Shooting at 24P with one of the film like gamma selections gives a very pleasing look that has nothing in common with digi beta.

I haven’t seen the new Varicam, but I have nothing but good to say about the 3000.

[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Peter,
I don’t think the 2700 is a very good 2nd generation Varicam in PAL mode. It only shoots down to to 50fps, whereas the old Varicam could do 60fps in PAL. The 2700 records a frame size smaller in PAL than it does in NTSC mode, in comparison with a 2100 it really only has the gamma curve in it’s favour. I can’t help but feel that Panasonic is dudding us PAL users with the 2700. Go back to the drawing board and give us back those 10 extra frames please.
Matthew.

[John Sharaf]

Matthew,

I agree with you that Panasonic has dropped the ball with the new Varicams. First off the 3700 does not go to 60p frame rate, so it cannot really be called a “Varicam” and by making the 2700 only 720 capable they are creating an impossible situation for the freelancer who must service both 720 and 1080 accounts. I was told at the last NAB that this is because they could not create an 1920×1080 imager that would not overheat at 60p, but if that is the case they are prematurely bring the Varicam replacement to market; it must be both 720 and 1080 with a native 2.2 million pixel imager and have frame rates from 4-60. This combined with the AVC-I codec would make it the best and most capable 2/3″ camera on the market and would be a no-brainer upgrade for any varicam owner/operator that can convince his clientele to go P2 workflow.

JS

[Peter Corbett]

Yep,

I’ve been working with another cameraman in evaluating the cameras (I think he’s visited you Matthew!) and we’re both in agreement. The 2700 (in limited testing) seemed to have a more “pleasing” filmic look but there was definitely a difference in perceptible resolution compared to the 3000. I’m concerned about a compositor or editor sitting in his front of his 1920×1080 monitors moaning that the picture from the 2700 looks “nice but soft”.

Whilst the 3000 had kapow impact, it did look a little more contrasty and more less filmic than the 2700. This could be adjusted with the gamma curves. I did notice some aliasing on the 720/50P slomo footage when the 2700 panned over a brick wall.

I agree with John if the 3700 did 60fps slomo in 1080P, it would have been a knockout blow against Sony. But now the economic meltdown is upon us, so it may be best to do nothing about new cameras for a while to come…

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au

[Steve Mahrer]

Hello Folks; I haven’t posted for a while, but I do still “lurk”..

I just wanted to clear up a bit of confusion about the HPX2700, the brand new AJ-HPX2700 P2 VariCam will record in all three HD formats, namely 1080i, 1080p and 720p, AND it will do this in both DVCPRO HD and the new AVC-Intra CODEC. The P2 based 2700 VariCam takes off from where the older (but still venerable) tape based VariCams left off. Both cameras share the same imagers, same powerful gamma curves (including the VariCam’s signature FilmRec modes), we’ve added more frame rates (1-60), the same filmic shutter modes etc etc. But it has added the full raster 10 bit 4:2:2 AVC-Intra CODEC along side the usual DVCPRO HD CODEC. This is a bit like putting a 27H VariCam on your shoulder but recording to D-5!

Also, the HPX2700 is a Worldwide product, it’s the same as the 27H VariCam in that there are no PAL / NTSC variants, it’s the same camera with options for working at 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60Hz. If Matthew wants to shoot 60, 59 or whateevr frame overcranks, he can, but now he can choose to just record the active frames only (using AVC-Intra Native mode) then drop that clip onto a 25fps timeline and achieve whatever over crank or undercrank you wish.

I shot some test footage in Jackson Wyomong a few weeks ago with the 2700, the AVC-Intra CODEC makes a HUGE difference, clean, full resolution and 10 bit, nice for colour corection! We shot over / undercrank, time lapse, 6 for 6 ands 12 for 12 effects, and yes, if you need it shoot 24 over 60 just like the older 27H. Shooting AVC-Intar on the 270 in 1080i or 1080P, the camera also makes VERY nice pictures!

I hope it helps!

Cheers!

Steve Mahrer – Panasonic Broadcast US

[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Steve,
In all the testing I have done with the 2700, never once was it capable of recording at 60 frames for PAL 25fps playback. In any of he 50hz modes it maxed out at 50fps capture, making it no better for creative slow motion than a 202, 502, or 2100.
I think we should not confuse a “World” camera like the original Varicam is with the new 2700. Our 3000 is a true world camera in that it is as fully functional in 50hz mode as it is in 59.94hz mode. The 2700 is not as empowered in PAL mode as it is in NTSC mode.
Panasonic has not replaced the original Varicam with the 2700, it has created a different system with less front end functions in PAL. The main advantage of this camera is the P2 functionality, but it is certainly no replacement in creativity.
I’ll stick with our older Varicam (and our 3000) and wait until either Panasonic or someone else offers a true replacement.

[Peter Corbett]

I don’t understand where the HPX3700 gets it Varicam moniker. I mean who buys a vari-speed camera to shoot only Buster Keaton fast motion?

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au

[Matthew Romanis]

Marketing over product facts.