HPX 250 clips broken into 5 min clips

[Sam Lee]

Were these clips possibility part of a spanned volume? The 5 min per clip looks very similar when not all of the spanned volume sets are imported. When you have all of the spanned volume, it will magically join. I shot a 3.5 hours continuous spanning clip and I had to select all 4 raw P2 folders and it combined to a single 3.5 hours vs every 5 min clip.

typically use FCP 7.0.3 Log & XFer and import all spanned clips. It does take longer but so is importing it natively into FCP 10.2.1 and the library is large.

[Craig Alan]

This sounds promising. So if i copy each card to a folder and then import all the folders at once, FCP X will merge them? into what I see on the camera? I was wondering if I could import from the camera rather than a P@ card reader but my Mac didn’t see the connected camera (mini-usb to usb). In USB mode.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Sam Lee]

Yes simply import all folders and it’lll automatcially join it into a large clip. Unfortunately if you have more than 2 P2 cards spanned, you either have to copy all P2 cards to a hdd or have a 3 or 5 P2 card reader for it to see it all.

During import, you’ll have to compound select all of the P2 folders (:\CONTENTS) and all spanned footage will appear. I believe recall when the clip is spanned, a “!” will appear in their free P2 CMS for Mac or Windows. The best way to determine if the clip is spanned or not is to simply use FCP 7.0.3’s Log & Xfer. It’ll tell you if it’s partially spanned or completely spanned. The nice thing about it is that if you forget a P2 folder, you can add it and it’s smart to join it automatically right before you perform the rewrapping. FCP 10.2.1 is not as acute in this. So you have to prep it ahead of time for spanning otherwise each clip is 5 min vs hours long.

I actually got a bit lazy of having to constantly open the P2 media door to insert the 2nd card and keep it spanned on all P2 originated footage shot several years ago. The P2 spanning process has been flawless for me since 2006 with the paltry 4 & 8 Gb P2 cards. Back in those days I have to really keep up with the folder naming convention. With 64 Gb, that’s not a big problem anymore. Still don’t know why they don’t have 128 Gb P2. Sony already have it on their SxS cards.

[Craig Alan]

It’s just 2 p2 cards.
And I’m importing into FCP X not 7.

I’m pretty sure its completely spanned since it appears in the camera as one long clip.

[Sam Lee] “FCP 10.2.1 is not as acute in this. So you have to prep it ahead of time for spanning otherwise each clip is 5 min vs hours long. “

So how is this done? That is my issue.

I have not named the cards in camera. I just label the little white board and create a folder on my computer giving it metadata I make up with project scene date and A or B cam.

FCP X will include the folder name and treat it as the “camera name”

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Sam Lee]

I just tried on FCP 10.2.1 and all spanned clips worked fine. Here are my scenarios:

I have a PCD-35 which can read all 5 P2 cards. I happen to have a five 64 Gb P2 cards shoot and it imports spanned clip just fine. The catch here is that you must have all 5 cards online during the import. If there is the 6th card needed it will not span properly. Not to worry. There are shoots where I average about 30-35 cards per day for 6 cameras. This is where you must copy all native P2 to a hdd and then import all at once. Metadata here on the clip name is a must have here, especially with 6 or more cameras. I can’t imagine anybody can sort through the default P2 naming convention.

The true metadata is really the clip name of the footage shot. This has to be done when you shoot on your P2 camcorder. If you don’t set it to record clip name and type 2 meta data, FCP will always use the default $$$$##.MXF instead of the custom “Acam-main.MXF” that you specified in the camera. Otherwise 10.2.1 will make its own keyword based on the folder you import. It’s good to name the P2 folder name as a meaningful name vs something generic.

The 2nd method that I always do is to copy all of my pristine P2 file to the hdd for archive. I’m using Shot Put Pro 5.3.3 and it has the directory as follow: “Aug 2015 Work For Hire Shoots / Aug 28 Reality A cam.. B cam, C cam, D cam. What I did was select the closest one to the P2 structure (/CONTENTS). Shift select all 5 folders and it imports in with fully spanning. The key here is that you must shift select all 5 folders and FCP 10.2.1 will auto span it if it sees it on the original P2 folder. FCP 10.2.1 import window elegantly filter out the P2 structure to just the clip name. That is you will not see other directory name in the P2 (audio, clip, icon, proxy..)There’s absolutely no 5 min orphaned spanning clip. If not all 5 folders are selected it will result in missing spanned clip.

Whatever the case, spanning for FCP 10.2.1 works pretty well.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Sam,

I’m getting closer but still no cigar.

I copied the four P2 cards that together made up the long clips into labeled folders in the finder.

And FCP X no longer broke the footage into 5 min clips. But it did treat the two cards for each camera as independent clips. So I ended up with four clips in FC rather than 2 (one for each camera).

Should the 2 card files from one camera not be put in separate folders in the finder?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Actually the first folder in FC is actually longer than one full card would be. So FC kept the two folders by label but split the clips in these folders according to pause/record of the cameras. So I think it did marry the clip that spanned between card one and card two in each camera.

Hope that made sense.

Is there anyway to have them import as if they are one larger card

rather than the two labels 1 and 2 that I gave them?

Could you show me an example of how you organize it in the finder?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Sam Lee]

Here’s a typical weekly workflow for me. I’m ingesting about 40-50 64 Gb P2 cards per day. this is for a 6-cam, unscripted reality show shot on 1/3″ and 2/3″ P2 cams. The key here is that the volume name has to be structured. No mistaken can be made at anytime. That is, I must be 100% certain that all P2 volumes are copied and verified (XXHash64). P2 has an annoying 11 char volume limit. So one must find a way to name it based on the workflow and situation of each prod. The 11-char P2 volume name is foundation name for all other names. It looks somewhat unorganized now, but eventually will be uniformly named.

My folder naming is actually quite generic and general. I simply don’t have the extra time to custom name 40-50 folders per day. Typically it’s categorized by day and camera #. Nothing else otherwise the folder gets too long.

Shot Put Pro 5.3.3 is a must have app. It will take all of the card volumes and transfer it automatically. It’s impractical to manually do each one when you have about 40 P2 cards per day to deal with on a regular basis. You can also specify pre and suffixes volume name. Due to system resource limit, I can only offload about 10-15 cards at a single time. After that, continue on with the 2nd batch of 10 P2 cards. The P2 sources are from PCD-35s, PCD-30, AG-MSU10s, PCD-2. Practically every possible reader I can get my hand is utilized on the legacy Mac Pro 2010 model. I do not like Micro P2s. They are very easy to get lost in the field. Used market cost for Micro P2 and P2 is only ~$50 difference. Sadly, the PX270 and PX380 will force users to buy Micro P2s if they want spanning. Otherwise only a single slot for P2 on those cams.

True metadata of camera name, clip names, etc are done at the camera level and not in FCPX. It’s too cumbersome to manually rename it FCP X, especially when there are about 6-8 cameras to deal with. Time code sync must be correctly done during the shoot via Zaxcom or Time Code buddy products. If there’re drift, it’s very difficult to manually offset TC with the native P2 media. Small thing such as correct date and time setting on each camera is also important as it’ll affect the initial sorting. Overall every detail has to be taken into account in order to effectively manage the massive P2 media on a daily basis.

After extensive real world testings, it’s not efficient to edit P2 natively in FCP X. Library size is about 8-10x larger than the rewrapped P2 files (via FCP 7.0.3 as a native AVC-I MOV). For smaller edit with only a few P2 cards, then it’s OK. But large scale edit, not practical or recommended.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks.
When your copying the P2 cards in the finder, are you dragging the contents and last clip to a folder or are you using a tool or app or some other container to copy them over?

what exactly are these two containers?

Also, although any given project is small by comparison to what you are dealing with, By the time I have a card copy then a FC media import and then a back up of all this my raids do get filled up.

I have not noticed a space saving or any difference when I check optimize in FCP X import. But maybe I’m wrong. If I’m right, how are you optimizing? or transcoding??

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Sam Lee]

The top icon with P2 series F are from the PCD-30, PCD-35 P2 drives. It has the slot #s also. Nice little touch. The orange icons are all from the AG-MSU10 drive. Up to 23 P2 drives per AG-MSU10 can be mounted. I’ll only mount to up to 55-60 P2 drives per session. Anything beyond it will crash or freeze up the system.

I’m rewrapping the P2 AVC-I 100 via FCP7. You can say it’s transcoding but not exactly because it’s set to the native AVC-I 100 .MOV. It’ll be transcoding if I set the Log & Transfer to Pro Res 422. You’ll notice a huge space saving when your project is in the Tb range. Recent internal tests clearly shown over for a typical 1 Tb of raw AVC-100 P2 footage direct FCP 10.2.1 native file import takes up about 390 Gb in the library. Optimized media selection was used. Proxy was not used. On the other hand, if I spend a bit more time rewrapping the AVC-I 100 footage via FCP 7 and import it to FCP X for editing, the library is only about 300-400 Mb (with the Leave Files in place checked). With proxy option, the rewrapped .MOV import is only about 120 Gb for the FCP X library. That’s a huge saving in file size in both cases. It adds up when the edit get larger. Whey you happen to be editing large media library, keep this in mind. You do not want a big 12 Tb library. I had one that grown to 8 Tb for native P2 import. I have no idea what FCP X is doing but importing native P2 media is not at all efficient in 10.2.1.

On a side note, I prefer rewrapping to .MOV because other apps – such as After Effects can take that footage with ease. Trying to get AE to read footage from the raw P2 is too time consuming. It’s also cost prohibitive having to duplicate the raw footage (one for FCP X’s library) and the other for the 3rd party apps to use. FCP X’s library for all media is hidden in a .fcpbundle and 3rd party app like AE can’t really use it at all.