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How to finish an HDV feature?
Hello –
I’ve been reading old posts in vain, trying to find advice on my dilemma.
I’m just setting up to edit an HDV feature, shot on JVC-GY-HD250, 720p30, capturing from a JVC BR-HD50 deck via firewire. Since this is a serious feature, we believe we need to edit natively instead of with the AIC, so we can back up the project and allow an online edit later. Storage space is not an issue. We’re using FCP 5.0.4 (we could upgrade to 5.1 if necessary but our machine isn’t capable of running 6.0).
My question is:
Our DP is concerned about the loss of quality by editing in native MPEG-2 HDV, in that with every cut the B and P frames will need to be re-encoded, and since this is a musical, we are talking LOTS of cuts over two hours. Should we edit natively, re-batch capture to regain the original quality before all the cuts/recuts/recuts… and then convert it with AIC? or just cross-convert up to true HD?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
Confused editor learning new things…
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6 Replies
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My insight is to do a search. Just yesterday there was a long thread about whether to use ProRes422 or native HDV for editing. There’s even a couple of links to very useful information, including Tim Wilson’s compilation of the collective COW wisdom.
ProRes 422 or HDV For Editing is the title of the thread I think (it was just yesterday)
Ed -
I’m afraid ProRes simply isn’t an option, as we can’t run FCS 2 on this machine.
If we capture native, and edit native, should we do an online where we go back to the tapes to get rid of the loss around the cuts? And then do a cross-conversion up to HD?
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It is possible to do a recompile in uncompressed HD using FCP V5. Naturally you will need to use a card like Kona or Decklink and a big fast RAID.
I am more famililiar with the Sony/ Canon HDV variant. I have done numerous onlines from 1080 50i HDV projects. Mostly they have been cut DV but cut HDV is no different when it comes to recapturing. I have had a JVC camera with HDSDI output so I am confident that this path is valid for JVC.
I use Media manager to create an offline project and convert to the Uncompressed 10bit 4.2.2 then recapture. Delete unused media and set a sensible handle so there is not too much media to recapture. I am sure you can search posts here and at the HDV forum where I have described this path in greater detail.
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i don’t believe there IS any “loss around the cuts?”
nick
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dont know if it’s too late for this,
but 30P is a really bad format to shoot.
will guarantee the worst images, i thinkthis from Mike Curtis:
https://www.hdforindies.com/2007/04/ok-indies-listen-up-10-things-not-to-do.html
2.) If you want to “shoot a movie” on DV, shoot 24pA mode, or at least have only slightly bungled it and shot 24p. 30p is one of the worst frame rates to use. 24p doesn’t compress as nicely as 24pA, therefore doesn’t look as good. DV is already challenged enough, don’t beat up the little bruised kid any further. The catch is in the capturing, which leads to Item 4 in a minute.. -
There is a lot of confusion regarding this issue, hopefully this reply won’t add to it.
There are sever things to consider, what is the deliverable, SD-DVD, HD-DVD/Tape, HDV tape?
Your DP is correct FCP must recalculate [conform] the B and P frames. If for example this was a cuts only project with no effects it only goes through this process once so your not re-encoding for every cut. So in this example you would lose one generation. Obviously HDV is lossy but if this is all you did the difference from the original would be imperceptible. However if you had a lot of cuts it might take a very long time conforming. If your going to master to HDV tape this is probably the best way to go.
If your going to master to DVCProHD it would be better to capture to the DVCProHD codec but this requires an Aja or Black Magic card that can capture analog component. I’m not sure [somebody else will probably speak up to this] whether I would trust making the conversion using batch export from FCP or compressor.
A workflow that will provide much better quality would be to convert to the SheerVideo codec, it is lossless, platform and application agnostic and works well with FCP 5.1.4. Like everything else there’s a trade off. This codec was designed to improve the workflow for uncompressed HD. Using it with HDV will significantly increase the data rate and file size. But if you have enough RAID storage this is a very good alternative to editing HDV natively. I probably wouldn’t choose it for short form work but for long form where you may live with this project for a while I would.
You can check it out here: https://www.bitjazz.com/en/products/sheervideo/
Regarding the Apple Intermediate Codec, again I might use it on some short form work but definitely not on a project where quality was important. It is a 4:2:0 8-bit codec, the only advantage it offers is converting it to a frame based timeline, kinda like big DV. DV is certainly easier to edit but I don’t think people look at it and exclaim, “wow that look great!”
If the JVC BR-HD50 has an SDI out you could always capture uncompressed HD — which is a whole different thread.
I hope this helps.
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