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how to export 16 bit color
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[B.J. Ahlen] “So in FCP, it’s up to 12 bits in and up to 10 bits out, except for the up to 16-bit alpha channel in ProRes 4444? “
OK where did you come up with that? I cannot find that written anywhere in that whitepaper.
It I my understanding that the PR 4444 codec supports 12bits IN and OUT, While the ProRes 422 is limited to 10bit max the 4444 version does actually support 12bit capture and playback.
In reality there are very very few camera can even generate an actual 12bit signal – Sony’s F35 can for example generate a 12bit signal-but there is no Sony device that can capture that 12bit data.
Currently only externally capturing the signal asDPX allows for handling files at that bit depth and those recorders are very expensive. I do not believe that RED is has opened up support for 12bit file handling in any app not using the native R3D files- and I know that Phantoms .Cine format supports up to 16bit natively and that you can only maintain that when exporting as DPX frames.The reasoning behind a 16bit alpha was to offer the best possible data masking for ultra smooth luma keying or masking that having 65,000+ levels of grey for the mask would allow and 16bit alphas are the standard in the VFX world.
I am working with Arri and Fletcher Camera Chicago to be on one of the first Alexa’s in the country to test this very thing in ProRes vs Raw to get to the truth.
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Technology Development
Quality Assurance AssistanceChicago, IL
https://blogs.creativecow.net/24640
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[gary adcock] “B.J. Ahlen] “So in FCP, it’s up to 12 bits in and up to 10 bits out, except for the up to 16-bit alpha channel in ProRes 4444? ”
OK where did you come up with that? I cannot find that written anywhere in that whitepaper. “
That’s from combining the info in the [FCP7] “Supported Formats and I/O” section in Apple’s FCS Spec (linked in my earlier post) with the info in the ProRes White Paper.
I look forward to hear about your findings with Alexa files, should be rockin’ if FCP can handle them.
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[B.J. Ahlen] “That’s from combining the info in the [FCP7] “Supported Formats and I/O” section in Apple’s FCS Spec (linked in my earlier post) with the info in the ProRes White Paper. “
This is contrary to the information I got direct from my contacts in the QT team who are behind everything we are talking about.
I see nothing about limiting the 12bits out of the PR4x4 codec to 10bit and I have re-read the doc about 3 times today looking for it. Even understanding that there are very few devices that can actually understand and handle a 12bit signal is secondary- I just do not believe that they (apple) would arbitrarily trim off 3000+ levels of gray off the signal for “yuks”.
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Technology Development
Quality Assurance AssistanceChicago, IL
https://blogs.creativecow.net/24640
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[gary adcock] “This is contrary to the information I got direct from my contacts in the QT team who are behind everything we are talking about. “
Did you get that information on the QT?
Come on, we won’t tell anyone!
:O)
Seriously, I would trust those guys more than the FCS Spec.
The next question is obviously how much this has been actually tested with real footage.
We’re glad to see yo are prepared to bleed for us…
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[B.J. Ahlen] “Come on, we won’t tell anyone! “
yeah right…
“The next question is obviously how much this has been actually tested with real footage. We’re glad to see yo are prepared to bleed for us… “
Ah..
When you are this far out on the edge the blade is pretty sharp- ya never feel it and its the guy behind me that’s covered in blood.As for testing- I have been working in these workflows for almost 6 years now and I am guessing that maybe 50 -60 % of the workflows I design and/ or debug are working at this level somewhere during the process.
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Technology Development
Quality Assurance AssistanceChicago, IL
https://blogs.creativecow.net/24640
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[B.J. Ahlen] ”
Apple ProRes 4444 supports image sources up to 12 bits and preserves alpha sample
depths up to 16 bits.
[…]
Like Apple ProRes 4444, all Apple ProRes 422 codecs can in fact accept image samples even greater
than 10 bits…
[…]
The Apple ProRes 4444 codec losslessly encodes alpha channel values of any bit depth up
to and including 16 bits.So in FCP, it’s up to 12 bits in and up to 10 bits out, except for the up to 16-bit alpha channel in ProRes 4444? “
H264 supports 14b, 444, Intraframe but you don’t get that in FCS/QT.
These are options that may be implemented by the developers/manufacturers if needed
The same counts for Prores; it have options that haven’t been implemented yet in any kind of software or hardware.You will get a 12b Prores or a RGB Prores when you will find the options in your export window.
rafael -
[Rafael Amador] “H264 supports 14b, 444, Intraframe but you don’t get that in FCS/QT. “
Why is it necessary to confuse the subject, BJ’s question was on ProRes not H,264
According to the table of available h.264 encoders listed on Wikipedia-basically no one on any platform supports the “up to 14 bit” Interframe compressed “professional” versions of h.264 at this time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Software_encoder_feature_comparison
and its still NOT 16bit.
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Technology Development
Quality Assurance AssistanceChicago, IL
https://blogs.creativecow.net/24640
-
Dear Gary,
This comparison (H264 – Prores) may be confusing for you, but I’m sure that that BJ understood it.
The same that happens with H264, its happens with Prores.
At this time no one platform supports the 12/16b of Prores.
Well, perhaps with your “special combination of software and hardware” you are able to do it.
But as long as you don’t share your formula…
rafael
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