How much different is 4 from 6 really,

[Don Greening]

Probably the biggest change between FCP 4 and 5 is the ability to edit multiclips. The biggest change from 5 to 6 was the Pro Rez codec which allowed those previously editing in uncompressed to have virtually the same quality but at much smaller file sizes. The smooth cam filter in FCP6 is also a great tool for toning down shaky footage. There are other improvements too numerous to mention (some newer codecs to handle the newer cameras), stability enhancements, etc. But if you’re just shooting and editing with one camera and don’t plan on hardware upgrades in the near future then stick with what you’ve got.

[andy shnikes] “and what is the difference from final cut studio form final cut pro? “

You need to go to the Apple web site and see for yourself. Final Cut Pro is a stand alone app and Final Cut Studio is a suite of pro apps:

Final Cut Pro
Compressor
DVD Studio Pro
LiveType
Motion
Cinema Tools
Soundtrack Pro
Color – a professional grading tool developed by Silicon Color and purchased by Apple. What used to cost 5000.00 USD for the HD version is now included in FCS2.

– Don

[Walter Biscardi]

[andy shnikes] “what am i seriously missing out on? As people a few years ago were using what i got and it was top of the line, “

As FCP 4 is about three years old or so, I honestly can’t even remember everything about it, but I do know there are more codecs, much more stability, Smooth Cam and a host of other features. If you plan to edit HDV at all, that codec is not supported in 4 for example. That was introduced with 5.1 I believe. 4 will not run well on an Intel machine, if at all.

[andy shnikes] “and what is the difference from final cut studio form final cut pro? “

For starters, a $25,000 color grading tool, Color, thrown in the mix. Motion is included. Can’t remember if SoundTrack Pro was included with 4 or if that came later.

If it’s just a hobby and you’re not earning any income from this, I would not upgrade unless you purchase a new machine. Quite honestly as a hobbyist, I would probably be using iMovie as it’s quite a good editor, especially the latest version. It has some features I wish FCP had.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!

[David Roth weiss]

There are huge differences in realtime performance that took FCP from a “wannabe” in ver. 4 to the professional app. it has become.

Realtime functionality was greatly enhanced in ver, 5 and then optimized in ver. 6. That includes the ability to preview almost anything on the timeline without rendering now.

As I recall, if you added text or graphics or still photos to the timeline in version 4 you had to render everything just to preview it on the timeline, and you had render every minor change or trim in the timeline as well just to see if it worked.

So, one could easily argue that the changes made since ver. 4 have pretty much improved the workflow of every minute of every edit session in FCP. That’s pretty different don’t ya think?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.

[Ryan Mast]

[David Roth Weiss] “There are huge differences in realtime performance that took FCP from a “wannabe” in ver. 4 to the professional app. it has become.”

Indeed. Actually, Andy, in your position, if you want to upgrade and you can’t justify buying Studio, get the new version of Final Cut Express. Realtime performance is great, it comes with a lot of the FCP FxPlug filters, and it still gives you the ability to keyframe motion and effects. And it supports HD, should you ever need it.

[Andy Shnikes]

Wow!

The rendering aspect being quicker is by in itself a reason to upgrade, but I have to ask, are you sure it was the software that allowed this improvement or your upgrade in hardware?

My titanium powerbook g4 might not be able to handle new final cut software. I dont have the money to upgrade at this time.

As most people, not being able to upgrade all around (i.e. new camera, new hardware, new software) with every new outpouring of the industry, I am reluctant to sparsingly upgrade. For example, I dont want to buy an HDV camcorder, if I cant afford even final cut pro 5.1. Then what good is the camera to me? I can shoot in hd, but I cant edit it.

If I upgrade my software without upgrading my hardware, I might not be able to utilize all the new features. As my machine cant physically handle the upgrades.

If I upgrade my hardware, as a poor college student, i have no money left for either a camera, or software upgrades.

It’s this catch -22 which leads me to post the thread question, whats the real difference?

Although I appriciate the thoughtfulness of offering me (a non-paid, yet pro-sumer) a downgrade to I-movie (a fine program im sure, but a kick in the mouth for me by you all “paid professionals”) I am happy with my final cut pro 4 and my titanium power book g4, and living on 6 year old cutting edge technology. It works, and I can crank out decent movies, while still learning terms, settings, skills, and experience professionals use and know from the starving artist paycheck.

Dont get me wrong, you all are wonderful, posting tons of useful information, all day long, with no pay for it, for the love of it, but when you talk down to those of us who are in the position you once used to be, dont expect us to take it lightly. Sometimes its almost like you were either brainwashed into thinking you have to have the top of the line equipment or you just wont be able to edit movies at all. Or some of you work for these companies which push upgrades as soon as they can on those of us without the money to afford them. So it makes me wonder why the industry thinks it has to move so fast. Is it to weed out the competition? Is it to bankrupt the poor? Is it to stay ahead of something more than that? Because personally, even those of us who can make a living off of this line of work, can do so just fine with “ghetto rigging” our software, hardware, and efforts in all other areas, to make movies the average consumer of our products finds more than average. In fact so much so they keep calling us back.

Therefore, upgrades although always nice, are not always mandatory. Maybe to stay ahead on feature multi million dollar budget films, but in that case you have the funds to upgrade, and the need for such nit-picky precision. But on the streets, we are doing our best with what we’ve got.

With that aside…..
Thanks for the breakdowns, and the very useful information.
But I was wondering if the upgrades you mentioned,
such as rendering times cut down, have more to do with hardware than software? or if its more a combination of both?

[Bill Dewald]

[andy shnikes] “but when you talk down to those of us”

Get over yourself. No one’s talking down to you. You wanted to learn the difference between your software from 2003, and what’s currently available. The answer is – a lot. I’m sorry that you don’t have enough money to buy all of the gear that you assume we all own. B.u.t. – do you really need it?

You can do many fine things with your G4 and FCP 4. Entire feature films have been cut on that platform. HD is pretty much ruled out. Encodes will take forever. But you can still cut.

To address your original question – “Do I need to upgrade?” How would a room full of internet strangers know? What are you trying to do with FCP?

And in regards to hardware vs. software – its a combination of both. Besides, FCP 4 won’t run on the current intel macs, so if you’re going to upgrade, you’ll have to do it all.

But keep insulting helpful strangers on the internet, and you’ll be rich in no time. Good luck.

[Andy Shnikes]

thanks for being real,

and i wasnt trying to insult, just tend to feel belittled everytime i come on here asking a question. so i decided to say something about it.

I used to post in the regular forum, but the derogatory remarks were worse over there, everyone would be like, hahaha go post in the basics forum, newbie.

look, this is a great site, with lots of helpful information, and tons more helpful people, for which im eternally grateful, but there is also an elitist attitude on here that gets on my nerves. The whole industry of entertainment has a whiff of it, like somehow because they have this “power” to semi-immortalize people they think they can do say and act any way they want, and the rest of the world has to kiss their feet because of it. “dont you know who I am?” No I dont and you bleed the same blood as me, so dont think you can be a prick because you have your name in the credits that move to fast for anybody to see, not that they pay any attention to them anyway.

[Ryan Mast]

[andy shnikes] “but there is also an elitist attitude on here that gets on my nerves. The whole industry of entertainment has a whiff of it, like somehow because they have this “power” to semi-immortalize people they think they can do say and act any way they want, and the rest of the world has to kiss their feet because of it.”

Dude, this is a forum run by pros. If you want to learn how the pros work, this is an awesome place to be. I’m still a student, so I’m here to learn and get smacked around and corrected sometimes because that’s how I get better. You asked their opinion. Chill. If you want advice for amateur/consumer level production, try the Apple forums or something.

To finish answering your question, your TiBook probably won’t be able to handle anything higher than FCP 5 or FCE 3. You’ve probably got the best software for your hardware right now. If you want to upgrade, plan on at least $4,000 to upgrade to current consumer/prosumer gear (new consumer HD camera, MacBook Pro, FCS 2).

[David Roth weiss]

[andy shnikes] “The rendering aspect being quicker is by in itself a reason to upgrade, but I have to ask, are you sure it was the software that allowed this improvement or your upgrade in hardware?”

Who said the rendering was quicker? The big deal is that you can preview without rendering first. So, much of the time you can render you feel like it, not every time you make a change in the timeline.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.

[Andy Shnikes]

ah, ok, thanks for the clarification….