How do you bill for iTunes downloads?

[Ron Lindeboom]

[Milton Hockman] “im working freelance for a production company and i had to download an iTunes song for the project. they told me to add it to my bill. how do you all charge for that? should i only charge them $1? or should I mark it up?”

If you are the “buyer of record” and that song ends up in a production, you are now what we call “totally hosed” and are legally responsible, and so is the production company you work for, when the copyright holders of that song come after you.

Copyright laws are there to give legal protection to the one that owns them, and they are there to act as The Hammer with which to pound, like nails, the ones who infringe upon those copyrights.

Ron Lindeboom

[Brendan Coots]

Ignore this at your peril. Seriously, you CAN NOT just download songs from iTunes and use them in a commercial production of any kind, internal OR external. The owner of the copyright can (and will) sue you and the production company for loads of money if they ever find out. Even if they don’t sue you, they will absolutely demand compensation that is probably 20X the total value of the job. It can be a career ender.

Sounds like maybe it’s too late, you better just hope that it’s a small internal project that never sees the light of day.

Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com

[Jeff Bonano]

Basically what Ron and Brendan are saying is:

You can’t bill them for it…

..and not to beat a dead horse, but an extra note for you to chew on is another important one.

If you did charge them for it, not only are you accepting responsibility, but you are adding fuel to the fire by making money from reselling someone else’s music. It would be like you buying stock footage and then reselling it as your own.

I would seriously contact your client and ask them to destroy that project and go out and buy some royalty free music to replace that itunes music. It’s still possible to save the project and your reputation!

Good luck!

Jeff Bonano
http://www.bonanoproductions.com

“I want to have a cool quote at the bottom of my signature, just like everyone else on the cow forum!” -Jeff Bonano

[Mike Cohen]

Milton,
I checked out your website and see you have over 400 posts on the COW. Based upon what I have seen, you should know better.

But you’re human, so this is your one allowed moment of weakness for the year.

How do you charge a client for an iTunes download? You “just say no.”

If the client insists and say “oh, this is just for our sales meeting” then say no again. In-house projects for private viewing will wind up on YouTube within a day. Then you have XYZ company name and WXY song synced up for eternity. Then if the company gets sued or a cease and desist, they will blame you. It is, after all, your job as a vendor to tell the client what they need, and to dissuade them from doing anything you wouldn’t.

As Peggy Olsen likes to say “the client doesn’t always know what’s best.”

But you as a vendor do.

If you are as up the river and paddle-free as you appear to be, then you have to talk to the guy who sold you the raft or abandon ship and start dogpaddling.

Good luck.

Mike Cohen

[Richard Herd]

Assuming permission is granted, it’s not really worth marking up (unless your sales volume is pretty large).

Note: I do this a lot for the Summer Concert Series at Harveys Outdoor Arena and sometimes for the Harrah’s Lake Tahoe South Shore Room, getting permission from the entertainers, and also I have vendors who do the same thing. It’s just quicker-faster-cheaper to spend $1+ to download the songs rather than wait for the CD in the mail.

[Brendan Coots]

Ah, good point on the resale factor, that would actually be viewed even worse in court than just using the music illegally because, at that point, they can prove damages and willful infringement.

Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com

[Richard Herd]

§ 504. Remedies for infringement: Damages and profits3

(a) In General. — Except as otherwise provided by this title, an infringer of copyright is liable for either —

(1) the copyright owner’s actual damages and any additional profits of the infringer, as provided by subsection (b); or

(2) statutory damages, as provided by subsection (c).

(b) Actual Damages and Profits. — The copyright owner is entitled to recover the actual damages suffered by him or her as a result of the infringement, and any profits of the infringer that are attributable to the infringement and are not taken into account in computing the actual damages. In establishing the infringer’s profits, the copyright owner is required to present proof only of the infringer’s gross revenue, and the infringer is required to prove his or her deductible expenses and the elements of profit attributable to factors other than the copyrighted work.

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html

[Ron Lindeboom]

Yes, and all you have to add to that is the cost of all your legal fees. Oh, and in some jurisdictions, the legal fees of the prevailing party if you lose. Some jurisdictions mandate the loser to pay.

Ron Lindeboom

[Craig Seeman]

The entertainer are often not the holders of the license for either the published music or the recording.

I know one group that actually left their record label over this and related reasons. They own the publishing and the recording rights. They sell less “units” (given the loss of major label marketing) but they actually make MORE MONEY since they own everything.

[Craig Seeman]

[Mike Cohen] “f the client insists and say “oh, this is just for our sales meeting” then say no again. In-house projects for private viewing will wind up on YouTube within a day. “

And it doesn’t take YouTube either. I know someone who did this for a corporate video. The company “downsized” one of the viewers shortly after the video was made. Disgruntled former employee took video in hand to a family friend lawyer who new what path to take.