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Horrible Key
I looked through the posts but could not find anything relating to this problem.
I do a lot of chromakey shoots. I am using a Sony DSR-250 DVCAM for acquisition and have had it for a few years. My main NLE is a Dual 2.5ghz G5 and I am running the latest OS. I am using FCP 502.
I understand that DVCAM is not the best colorspace for keying but over the last couple of version iterations of FCP (and After Effects for that matter) I have been experiencing much more difficulty with getting a good edge and overall sharpness. My shooting technique has not changed but the software seems to be handling the media differently and frankly not as well – or I am doing something wrong.
Here is the issue. At the edge of the subject and the green screen I am getting this “blocky” edge problem that did not used to show up (as bad). It seems to me that this problem really started getting bad when the software started “evolving” from RGB to YUV if that is a clue. In the “Sequence Settings” I have assumed it better to use YUV rather than RGB because DV uses YUV but maybe that is not the direction to go. Also, I am starting to think that the “Motion Filtering Quality” selections play into this. I always assume “Best” is the way to go but now I think I am seeing some improvement when using the “counter-intuitive” “Fastest (linear)” selection.
I am using the standard key software provided by the program (not any 3rd party plug-ins).I have tried an enormous amount of permutations of settings and still waste huge amounts of editing time every shoot trying to get a key.
I have a lifetime problem of trying to do everything myself but if anyone else has had these issues and has a “magic” fix I would appreciate hearing it. It is very frustrating.
I am going to transition to the Panasonic HVX200 when it comes out and hope the DVCPro50 4:2:2 colorspace fixes all this grief but until then I need to soldier on with the DSR250 and 4:1:1…Brian FitzGerald
FitzVideo.com -
8 Replies
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[Brian FitzGerald] “At the edge of the subject and the green screen I am getting this “blocky” edge problem that did not used to show up (as bad). It seems to me that this problem really started getting bad when the software started “evolving” from RGB to YUV if that is a clue.”
[Brian FitzGerald] “I am going to transition to the Panasonic HVX200 when it comes out and hope the DVCPro50 4:2:2 colorspace fixes all this grief but until then I need to soldier on with the DSR250 and 4:1:1…”
Unfortunately blockiness is a result of the compression and it’s very difficult to pull a key with any sort of DV format. Certainly try the 4:1:1 color smoother filter before you apply the key, this clean up the blockiness a bit.
Even using DVCPro HD for chroma key is not very good either. I’m fighting blockiness with the chroma keys here right now on several chroma key shots. I ended up going into After Effects creating a matte of the scene and then using that matte to help cut a cleaner key using a Luma Key.
Uncompressed is the only way to pull a really professional clean key.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
Now editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
G5 Dual 2.0, AJA Kona 2, Medea FCR2X
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Brian,
DVmattePro will give you much better results than the standard keyer. It’s amazing. I understand they are releasing a new version soon as well. And they recently released DVmatte Blast for Motion which I have heard good things about.
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Brian,
I feel your pain. We have an enormous amount of green screen interviews scattered throughout our shows. At first we were trying to use the keyer within FCP. As you can attest, we tried every setting, combination imaginable. Then we went looking for a solution. We settled on “Ultimatte”. https://www.ultimatte.com/products/product_mac.jsp
It’s expensive, but boy does it work! Usually, it’s just a one click solution for absolutely perfect keys. Even in worst case scenarios like wild frizzy hair, the Ultimatte would enable us to pull clean, sharp keys with VERY LITTLE muss or fuss.
Yes, the DV format is contributing to your problem, but at the end of the day, there are better keyers out there than the built in version shipping with FCP.
Good luck.
Mark
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[Mark Raudonis] “As you can attest, we tried every setting, combination imaginable. Then we went looking for a solution. We settled on “Ultimatte”. ” target=”_blank”>https://www.ultimatte.com/products/product_mac.jsp”
I’m actually partial to the keyer in Boris Continuum Complete. It’s an outstanding keying tool. Ultimatte is great if you are going to be doing a LOT of keys and can justify the cost.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
Now editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
G5 Dual 2.0, AJA Kona 2, Medea FCR2X
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We use Ultimatte and it is fantastic even on DV footage. Well worth the investment if you do chromakeys with any frequency.
Greg Smith
Eclipse Prooductions -
[Chris Poisson] “DVmattePro will give you much better results than the standard keyer. It’s amazing. I understand they are releasing a new version soon as well. “
Dear Chris. Thanks for the recommendation. I have looked at it before but not bought it. I just sent them an email to see if they have a new version coming out soon. I will forward that data when they answer me.
Brian FitzGerald
FitzVideo.com -
[Mark Raudonis] “We settled on “Ultimatte”.”
Dear Mark,
Thanks for your recommendation. I have also looked at this plug-in but was backed off by the expense. I think I am going to have to kick in for either this plug-in or the DV Garage one. I love chroma-key but it is always such a struggle in post. It looks like it’s time to bite the bullet…I appreciate you guys responding because I am really on my own island here in Wichita and am never really sure if something in software works the way it is supposed to or I am doing it wrong. Hearing from others who are involved in the same issues vastly improves my decision making.
Brian FitzGerald
FitzVideo.com -
[Gregory Smith] “We use Ultimatte”
Dear Greg,
Thanks for your imput. I will get one or the other of these plug-ins.Brian FitzGerald
FitzVideo.com
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