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Home built PC but not really quite equivalent to new Mac Pro
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[Gary Huff] “There’s nothing particularly “optimized” about the hardware itself in the Mac Pro, just design changes to fit the case.”
Based on what information?
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “I think the only argument is price. There no put in a home-built machine except to save money and induce pain”
But one of the advantages on the PC side is competition. HP is a corporate supplier – great quality, ridiculous prices. There are professional integrators who specialize in the video marketplace who produce equivalent systems to HP and who’ll kill their prices. There is no more “pain” in buying one of their systems than there is in buying a Mac. From what I’ve seen so far the MacPro is priced fairly, but it’s not a bargain, except when comparing it to HP.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Walter Soyka] “I think it’s worth noting that HP offers significantly better support than Apple does”
I think that’s geographically-dependent. I agree, HP’s business service is great. I’ve also had good support from the Apple Stores locally. Far, far, far better than all the other garden variety PC repair shops.
[Walter Soyka] “Lugging the old Mac Pro through the mall to the Apple Store Genius Bar was no fun. I guess the new Mac Pro will be easier to roll down the concourse.”
I think I made that point in my blog post about “Simplicity”. I believe the Apple vision is the total customer experience, coupled with technological “sweet spots”. The new MP will be far easier for the Genius Bar to troubleshoot based on fewer configuration options. From a cost-of-repair position, it will be cheaper for Apple to do module swaps on these machines than actual component-level troubleshooting for repair. Thus, faster turnaround for the customer.
[Walter Soyka] “Of course, HP and others have been shipping multiple GPUs in BTO configurations, and fast PCIe flash storage has been available from third parties like Fusion IO and integrators who install them for years.”
Absolutely true, but this appeals to an increasingly smaller niche market, at an extraordinary premium price, with little profitability for HP. Not the market Apple wants to play in.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Shawn Miller] “You can configure the Z820 with up to three GPUs.”
[Oliver Peters] “And that price is?”
It costs more. But you’re getting more, so it might be worthwhile.
When you’re buying a pro computer or workstation that costs around $10,000, price is probably not your first concern.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Herb Sevush] “There are professional integrators who specialize in the video marketplace who produce equivalent systems to HP and who’ll kill their prices.”
While true, this is an Apple-centric forum. In the US, no reseller or integrator can legally sell a Hackintsoh. That’s a different story in the EU countries.
In that sense Apple has you over a barrel, because, to make a move to a PC, you also make a move to Windows and that’s an anathema for most around here.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “[Shawn Miller] “I didn’t say anything about price.”
I think the only argument is price.”
Well… with respect Oliver, this isn’t the only argument. You and Phil have both made claims that a similarly spec’d Mac Pro will outperform a PC:
[Phil Hoppes] “…and while you can build a 12 Core Xenon PC with dual Radeon cards I doubt very seriously that it’s performance would even come close to what the current raft of benchmarks are delivering for the MacPro.”
[Oliver Peters] “If you look at the pricing for HP’s best machine, the Z820, and compare equivalent specs to the Mac Pro, the Z820 is more expensive. Yes, it is more expandable, but otherwise is actually a less capable machine based on the internal parts.”
My only question is why you think this. I’m even willing to concede the cost argument (pitting DYI and HP against Apple). 🙂
Shawn
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[Shawn Miller] “My only question is why you think this.”
Because, I have experienced using comparable Macs and PCs running the same apps (Premiere, AE, Media Composer, various encoders). While in some cases, renders and encodes may be faster on the PC side, I find the overall editing experience faster and more fluid on the Mac. AE would tend to be the exception.
Until people run side-by-side benchmarks, with similarly optimized software (like FCP X on a Mac Pro versus application XYZ on the PC), I don’t think you can simply say that slapping in two GPUs makes the machine equal to the Mac Pro. T Payton has a post about doing that at FCP.co. He IS getting better numbers on an old Mac Pro, but he’s not getting the same thing as the new Mac Pro offers. It’s merely a stop gap.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “While true, this is an Apple-centric forum.”
This is also the “or not” forum. Mac vs. PC is a frequent topic of discussion. When thinking about my next move both software and hardware are up for grabs.
[Oliver Peters] “In that sense Apple has you over a barrel, because, to make a move to a PC, you also make a move to Windows and that’s an anathema for most around here.”
The main thing keeping me on the Mac side of the fence is the ubiquity of ProRes deliverables. Many editors I’ve talked with working with either PPro or Adobe claim that they work better on the PC side.
I’m not monogamous when it comes to operating systems – I can be had, all they have to do is whistle.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Oliver Peters] “Because, I have experienced using comparable Macs and PCs running the same apps (Premiere, AE, Media Composer, various encoders). While in some cases, renders and encodes may be faster on the PC side, I find the overall editing experience faster and more fluid on the Mac. AE would tend to be the exception.”
I think you’re pointing more to software optimization here, otherwise AE wouldn’t be an exception. It might also be worth noting that many VFX and 3D artists prefer PCs for the same reason… because they’ve had better experiences on Linux or Windows.
[Oliver Peters] “Until people run side-by-side benchmarks, with similarly optimized software (like FCP X on a Mac Pro versus application XYZ on the PC), I don’t think you can simply say that slapping in two GPUs makes the machine equal to the Mac Pro.”
Agreed – conversely, you can’t then argue that the Mac Pro is just faster even when the hardware might be nearly identical to a PC. 🙂
Shawn
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[Herb Sevush] ”
I’m not monogamous when it comes to operating systems – I can be had, all they have to do is whistle.”LOL – I am definitely going to steal this. I promise to give full credit though. 🙂
Shawn
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