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Hey Jeremy – P2 24p & 29.97 mixed timeline question
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[Bret Williams] “Came from an Avid, and was run through compressor to make it all pro res hq. 720×486 Upper. “
See, I’d make that 720×486 none. It is 30p, right?
As far as the 24p stuff, I would have removed the pulldown and upconverted in COmpressor and made a 720p24 movie, then plopped that in the timleine to get the proper pulldown added to the 59.94 timeline.
A true conform.
Jeremy
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The 24p stuff never had pulldown. Usually I add pulldown upon log and transfer, but I didn’t do the conversion, the cameraman did.
Pretend all I had was 24p P2 files. No pulldown. What would be the proper way to create 29.97 video with the proper pulldown. Work in a 59.94 sequence? Is that what you’re saying? I don’t understand why you’d run your 24p footage through compressor. Seems like a poor workflow when you might have hours and hours of footage.
We now have to also create DVCams of our pure 24p sequences. Any advice there? Just run the final through compressor? Will it create the correct 2:3:2:3 pulldown for 29.97 DVCam? I have the matrox mini, but it doesn’t do the conversion and it doesn’t have firewire out and my DVCam only has svideo in. Argh.
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[Bret Williams] ” I don’t understand why you’d run your 24p footage through compressor”
I think I misunderstood and forgot that all of your 24p footage was HD. I thought you meant 24p SD as well. If I had 24p SD (which has pulldown), I’d only comfrom what was needed for the final timeline.
Sorry for this misunderstanding and forget what I said last time about removing pulldown (that was for 24p SD). Moving forward, your 24p is HD and your SD is 30p.
[Bret Williams] “We now have to also create DVCams of our pure 24p sequences. Any advice there?”
Do you have a Kona card? That will do it in real time. If not, you can drop a 23.98p HD movie into a custom created 23.98 DV timeline, you can choose to letterbox or not, and FCP will add the proper 3:2 pulldown on playout.
[Bret Williams] “Just run the final through compressor? Will it create the correct 2:3:2:3 pulldown for 29.97 DVCam?”
You can do that too, but you have to setup Compressor correctly to add the 3:2 interlaced pulldown.
If you have a pure 23.98 sequence, you can still make a DVD of that, or use the two methods descibed above. If you need to mix 24p HD and 30p SD, I’d put everything in a 720p60 timeline, and then make a 29.97 DVD, and a downconverted SD tape.
Jeremy
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I have a matrox mxo2 mini, and looks like it won’t do time base conversions. Besides, my dvcam only has FW or Svideo in.
So the best way to get our 24p sequences onto DVCam then is a custom 23.98 DV seq. I’ll have to look at that.
So, this project has thrown me into just about every aspect of 24p! Thanks for some awesome advice!
The mixed sequence btw worked perfectly and I ended up using AE to intrrlace my 59.94 720p to 29.97 SD. Faster than compressor and I just trust it’s scaling engine more.
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[Bret Williams] “The mixed sequence btw worked perfectly and I ended up using AE to intrrlace my 59.94 720p to 29.97 SD. “
That works too.
Glad I could help and I hope it all made sense.
A 23.98 dv timeline is a little known fact, but FCP has been able to add pulldown correctly via firewire since FCP3, too bad it can’t render it properly in a timeline. 🙁
Jeremy
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Where is that preset? I wasn’t able to get it to happen.
Oh, and I was wrong. Don’t know what I was thinking, but the matrox mxo2 mini does do 24 to 30 on the fly conversion. It does just about everything the kona does, but just has limited interface options. Hdmi or component.
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Oh, wait. A 24p “DV” timeline. I guess I have a 24p HD timeline. Yeah, the mini works, but I’d have to go in svideo to my DVCam deck. So we just exported the 24p sequences as 29.97 and nothing is moving too fast so the basic pulldown is ok. I guess we’d have to go the 59.94 route to smooth it all out? That’s a neat trick. The prodcer was impressed with how smooth it all came out for the other mixed sequence.
(We have 4 outputs – 3 720 24p, 1 720 24p + SD 29.97 anamorphic)
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OK, let’s do a run down of everything and how to get it out to dv via firewire.
If you have mixed frame rates (24pHD and 30p SD) oyu work in a 720p 59.94 timeline. Form there, you do a down-convert to 29.97 which you have used After Effects for.
If you have a 720p24 timeline only, you can then either export a reference movie and reimport it into FCP, or nest your current HD timeline in to a 23.98 DV codec anamorphic timeline and render (you can choose to letterbox (which FCP will default to) or change the PAR to anamorphic. FCP will add pulldown on playback to dv.
[Bret Williams] “So we just exported the 24p sequences as 29.97 and nothing is moving too fast so the basic pulldown is ok.”
This is not the way to go if using just FCP.
[Bret Williams] “(We have 4 outputs – 3 720 24p, 1 720 24p”
What’s the difference between these two?
Jeremy
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Jeremy or Brett, I’m wanting to know if this same concept will work with all HD material. I have 2 ProRes files, one a 1080p23.98 TV spot that a client wants to run back to back with their supplied file, which is 720p30 running at 29.97. Since both files are progressive, if I create a 720p59.94 sequence in FCP and drop both files in, will FCP add in the correct pulldown to both. The 1080p file looks right with 3:2 pulldown, 1 new frame with 1 repeat frame, then 1 new frame with 2 repeat frames. Is this correct?
The 720p29.97 clip is 1 new frame with 1 repeat frame throughout. Is this correct?
I think I’m okay with this, but I want to make sure I’m doing this right. Does that sound right?
Also, I know the 720p29.97 file the client sent is a such, because of what the browser shows me in FCP, but I’m seeing some jaggies with some of the footage. My guess is that is was interlaced footage at one point and now its progressive. Could he have deinterlaced footage to use with his other 720p material? I know you can’t tell without looking at the clip, but could this be the case in having jaggies in a 720 progressive clip?
OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card
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[Matt Campbell] ” Is this correct? “
It should work, yes.
[Matt Campbell] “Could he have deinterlaced footage to use with his other 720p material?”
Quite possibly, or it was SD material up converted to HD.
Jeremy
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