Help. Sony Vegas DOES NOT render?

[Joe Mantaratz]

You are correct about them using forums to look for answers but they are not the only ones who do that. Actually it is now quite common and frustrating to call tech support and be told to search for a workaround from the public. We are used at the beta testers…

…I had a problem a while back and went through the same thing and through persistence (a month) I finally got to speak to a developer not the “tech” guy. Until that happened I was cycled every time I called…

I don’t know enough about windows 7 to advise but most likely it is a Vegas problem especially with the machine you are running. You’ve done all I would have done….turn services off,,,clean boot etc to no avail. Sorry I don’t have an answer for you but when you find the answer please post it for the rest of us.

[Paul Wilson]

Thank you for the rapid response although it doesn’t really help me.

I will gladly put an answer up here when I get it but its a waiting game at the moment.

I have manage to render my last project.

The really odd thing is that it seems totally random / intermittant.

Project is at a point where its failing to render.

Render once. Fail. Render twice. Fail. Render 3rd time and it works.

No changes. Just 3rd time lucky. Really odd.

Its almost like theres a bug in Vegas where it will throw out the memory error for no reason and stop rendering when theres plenty of memory and as explained I have 8 gig RAM and nowhere near the 8 gig is being used.

Running task manager it goes to just over 2 gig Ram being used when Vegas is up. Render makes RAM usage go to 3.65 gig tops. Have run task manager when its rendering and theres no “spikes”.

Fluctuates between 3.5 and 3.65.

Really odd. Personally I think its some incompatibility between windows 7 and / or my exact hardware setup which is confusing Vegas.

Oddly at first Sony’s site stated it was not compatible with windows 7 and that they couldn’t offer support in that area.

Speaking to Sony they told me that info is old and that it is fully compatible with Windows 7.

Windows 7 hasn’t been out that long and I was told this a week after my intitial problems with Movie Studio. That is not enough time to figure any bugs that might be there.

I have heard other people talk about problems in various other websites and forums but those are older posts and typical relate to Vegas 8 and periods before Windows 7 was available.

One thing I haven’t tried…..
I am fairly computer literate but not too up to speed on things these days. Have seen people comment something about CODECS and removing them but I have no idea what all that means.

Oh well.

Will keep you posted. I should have forewarned I’m an avid waffler as you can see by the size of my posts. lol

Thanks once again for a shoulder to cry on. Lol

[Joe Mantaratz]

Codecs are short for Compression Decompression, and all that means is a format in which the file size is reduced but the quality of the original source is maintained with as little noticeable loss. That is why there are so many of them. It is a constant effort to look control file size and not lose quality, but in the end it is always a tradeoff to some degree. It all depends on what you final product is.

Back to your original problem I would again surmise it is a Vegas issue and I am sorry I cannot provide further help. I am still running XP here and as a rule I never jump on any upgrade until it had been out there and been beta tested by us the users.

I thought I had read that Vegas only sees 2 gigs of Ram….no matter how much you have but I really can’t recall where at this point. Keep us posted and I hope you can find a solution.

[Paul Wilson]

See what I’ve been told by Sony directly is that the lower forms of the software (Studio etc). The ones that cost under £100 ($200 approx) are the ones that only see the 2 gig thing or whatever the cap may be.

They managed to pursuade me to get Pro on that basis although some of my problems with that were the same as this one.

What they stated was that Pro allows Vegas to use up to A TERA BYTE of RAM. WOW I thought. At the same time thinking what a con Studio and the cheaper versions were due to it having this “RAM cap”.

On the Studio box it states “Edit in Hi Def”. Was thinking to myself…. Cheeky, U can edit in Hi Def but you cant render. What a scam.

I’m making gaming montages and as an e.g. my last project before the one I’m on was possibly the biggest. Recording Hi Def WMV via video capture card. Longest clips abotu a minute long but typically I’d only “snip” 10 – 30 seconds of that.

Perhaps up to 100 clips. Pretty large files and uncompressed as far as I’m aware. So I can see how its intensive

BUT

(A) Pro is a hi def editing suite

Dunno if I stated before but people have talked in other forums not regarding problems of making film length hi def productions etc.

AND IMPORTANTLY

(B) My last project had the same error and I had to break it down into 3 segments. It would only render a 3rd of the vid so thats even smaller still.

Something isn’t right. Its almost like Vegas isn’t conversing with the RAM properly. Odd. Oh well.

Searching for problems like mine typically people have found answers where they fixed it (none help for me), are having similar but slightly different problems due to version etc OR their posts have no response and I assume they disappeared into the blue yonder.

Oh well.

More than anything this posting and waffling helps me get some anger with Sony off my chest. Lol.

Still awaiting a response to me updating them that its still not working but it was only when I called them last that they responded to my last email so I’ll probably have to call again to get a response. Ridiculous.

Paul

[Kristofar Rieleef]

My guess is that .WMV is the problem. Where are you getting the .WMV files that you are using in Vegas? Have you had the same problem editing other types of formats? Can you convert your gaming footage to a different format, before taking them into Vegas? I’m sure at this point it would be a pain to do that. Also, have you tried rendering to a different format out of Vegas? I wonder if that would cause the same issues. If you post your video specs with a little more detail, maybe someone here could spot the problem right away. I’d do a few tests with other compression formats too, just to see if Vegas bogs down on you, so you can narrow it down to just that particular codec. Sometimes I’ve gotten that error, because my bitrate exceeds the standard for that type of format. The first thing I do is change the bitrate to a lower setting and this has always fixed if for me.

[Paul Wilson]

I am using WMV but I dont think personally thats the problem. UNLESS VEGAS HAS compatibility errors with WMV?

BUT then I have tried in other formats (see below)

I record Xbox footage using an HD PVR.

It auto saves footage as MP4 H264 (The 264 might be wrong) BUT anyway a hi def version of MP4.

Vegas does NOT like this so the software with my HD PVR has a file converter to convert the MP4’s to WMV.

It also has the choice to intially save as other formats. AVCHD and M2TS I think.

Anyway. I have checked. Whether it saves to any of those formats or even as converted to WMV the file sizes are fairly large but only fairly and the size difference is minimal.

I will state that I haven’t tried a whole project from scratch using other input files only WMV but that was due to their being very little difference in size but WMV quality looked slightly better.

I have tried rendering “outward” to M2TS, AVCHD and various other formats including low def ones. Literally any file type my computer can view (low def, hi def, AVCHD, MT2S, MPEG2, MOV, WMV etc etc etc)

If I render to a different output format and / or low def IT WILL USUALLY allow me 1 or 2 more snippets of vid within my overall project that will render but after the addition of a couple more it will also start to produce the low memory error.

This, to me, proves that IF there’s an error at my end then its telling me the original file sizes are too large and it doesn’t relate to the output only the input files. WHICH I think is what your getting at.

BUT

Again this is a hi def editing suite and by nature these files are going to be fairly big. It can’t be this can it? (read on)

I’m just going to get you some data now.

Project I am currently on as follows…..

1 MP3 track 3.77Mb

45 vid snippets. Usually no longer than 15 seconds for the original file.

Adding up total file size in MB and dividing by number = average, which is…… 19.167 MB per file

Total of all vids = 862.53 MB

Have increased volume on some so project media shows wav’s for these.
(11 in total) 1.27MB average.

1 jpg at 46 kb.

Aside from that there’s the simple vegas text (5 in total) doesn’t comment on file size but they are basic
and
The default solid black colour, again not showing sizes.

I would say around 50% of the vids have some keyframe work on (Pan and crop things).

Only about 2 vids with Vid FX on them etc.

About 75% have been either slow mo-ed, sped up and / or reversed. (mostly slow mo via stretch)

As previously stated though I have an 8 gig RAM machine.
Quite a few people making game montages use the HD PVR as its one of the favourites.
Typically these people have worse systems than mine which is brand new. They use the HD PVR and Vegas with no problems.

Typically gaming montages aren’t much longer than 10 mins online so I dont know anyone from that field who has hour long videos but people I know are making hour long hi def videos with no probs. e.g. weddings etc.

This newest one being more intricate than my last is a total of 2 mins 15 long and it wont render.

The Low memory does seem to come from when more and more videos are in BUT due to number of videos and NOT the file sizes / overall size of all files. Personally if I had 45 vids of 1 second in low def at under 1 mb each I would still get the problem.

I mean my last project got similarily as far (similar amount of input vids) BUT these vids were up to 4 times the size.

SO with last project I could get to the 3.5 min mark before low memory error. Had to snip it together in 3 pieces.

FX about the same maybe less than this one (certainly on the pan crop side)

SOOOOOOOOooooo. Its more like its number of inputs rather than their actual size and / or any large number of FX whether they are pan crop effects or vid FX

I have some vids reversed and they are repeated in project media but factored those in.

BUT

Again I have system checked. When Vegas runs at about 2 – 2.5 gig.
When it renders it jumps to a max of 3.65. Fluctuates around that mark. About 3.45 – 3.65.

When render crashes it can be at any point and there are no sudden spikes.

Memory usage is showing correct at the 3.65. Shows around 4 gig not even being used.

Terabyte HD with around 90% space. Its brand new.

Something is majorly up. The biggest things consuming in Task manager is FileIOSurrogate which relates to Vegas anyway (well I think it does cos if you shut it Vegas goes and Vegas on loading mentions this?.

However the IO surrogate is having large usage (426MB) and Vegas exe is 88 mb there is still plenty of RAM left over.

3rd highest = IE which I’m on now at about 90mb.
50 processes running

BESIDES thats all irrelevant (Apart from the IO thing maybe?) as I have tried this all before by only running MS stuff (the whole run with nothing running other than whats needed via MSconfig)
and
Again back to my original note that not even half the RAM being used.

Dont know if that helps you?

Paul

[Paul Wilson]

Sorry. Another side note which might be irrelevant.

1st montage I did must have been about 60 vids.
Equally as many FX.
Exact same source material from same capture device and convert to WMV.
Rendered fine and was 6 – 8 minutes long

BUT

I wasn’t using Vegas. I was using MS’s free Movie maker.
Further to this it was on a different machine.
1 gig RAM. 1.8 gig processor. Windows Vista 32 bit. Really old rubbish machine.

Ok Movie Maker might not be comparable to Vegas in the operations its performing BUT output was very very good. Many special effects. Up to 4 times the lenght. Rubbish PC and it could still cope.

So far I have attempted 4 projects on Vegas.

1st Project granted was less intense FX wise and less files. I am trying to remember but I dont think that had any problems. 4 mins long.

2nd Project was a most intense FX wise and had most vids. 12 mins long. Think I had to do that in 2 pieces.

3rd project was shorter (8mins) than the one above. Less FX. Had to be compiled in 3 parts.

4th project. This one. Possibly the most intense to date and wont go past 2 mins 15.

NOTE. THOSE ARE NOT CHRONILOGICAL. 1st and 2nd should be swapped.

Almost like Vegas is degrading. Really odd.

My projects are games related and most were for my own pleasure. Currently unemployed so moneys tight and (sounds sad I know), my Xmas present to my brother (if it works) will be this current project I’m on.

PS If anyone actually wants to check out my vids then heres the info.
original Movie Maker vid and 12 min vid not on youtube due to music copyright and / or max length of 10 mins.

Basically 2 projects are on youtube.

Not sure how to produce link but

Just Search Youtube for “thealbinorat”
You should get 2 search results.

1 is simply called “Y”
The other is “L4D2 : Seen Too Much”

As explained. Gaming so if your not into that kinda thing. Seen Too Much is rather gory too.

[Paul Wilson]

Right. 3rd post and some interesting finds.

Was googling as ever.
Found this post on a forum

https://forums.overclockersclub.com/index.php?showtopic=163785

Guy with similar problems to me.
Rendering same way. Same inputs. In fact same video game. Assuming he might be using same capture as me.

Almost identical problems. Differences = He’s on Vista and I’m on Windows 7. His PC specs are lower. he mentions later 32 bit but intially 64 bit which is what I’m on both in OS and Vegas Pro version.

Anyway.

I’m rendering at 6mbps or whatever it is. Widescreen hi def WMV. Like him.

He said 3mbps works.

So I added about 8 more clips, stretched them out hugely, added a random different FX to each of them. Video totals 6 mins now. Renders at 2 mbps no probs.

This (AS FAR AS I’M AWARE) indicates the size of the input files / memory regarding that, is not to blame as theres more rather than less.

Anyway. Final vid is not of Hi Def standard and is letterboxed rather than proper widescreen. Still same aspect ratio just smaller with black edges and worse quality.

SOOOOOOoooooo. Whats the difference. Quality of course BUT the final output file is smaller.

This to me means that the problem on rendering is the size of what the output file will be.

Perhaps a bug in Vegas that output file is restricted in someway RE memory although I fail to see that it would come close to my mem total.

Maybe Windows has a bar whereby when it sees a file being created that goes above a certain size (500mb’s?) that it thinks theres a fault and restricts vegas doing that? and Vegas not knowing what windows is doing chucks out the low memory error.

Either that or Vegas is wrongly giving the error message. Unfortunately I use the computer for nothing more than browsing the net and video making and was the sole reason I got it.

There is nothing I can do to PUSH the RAM with another non-MS app that will see if this theory is correct.

please see the link I put in as it is similar to my error.

Seeing it in the background now the guy states he actually rendered ok as AVI and that ended up with a file of 110GB (WOW) BUT it has problems purely with widescreen WMV.

personally I think Vegas is bugged and sorry but I’m really tearing my hair out.

I dont expect to buy a top notch PC and a “professional” piece of software for £1000 ($2000) and have it not work. Sony really need to pull their finger out.

Their latest suggestion. Maybe Vegas is keeping other stuff in the RAM it doesn’t need. Try doing a fresh render after restarting the PC. WTF. “You dont think I tried that already” as well as totally turning off, not having anything else run, not being connected to the net and the 300 other things I’ve tried.

GRRRRRRRRR.

Sorry. Gotta stop typing!

[Paul Wilson]

SORRY. This should be my last post of the weekend.

Another interesting find. At the point I had got to in my vid proper it was failing render about 50% of the time.

I did the test above by adding more vids so that it failed render every time. You can see the testing above (read my previous 3 posts).

Anyway. Extended to 6 mins. Last theory in last post was output file size.

Tried to check this.

OK. Forget the bits I added. I removed them. I also removed half the other vid clips. Basically half its size with half the input data as before. A lot smaller to a point it was working fine.

Ok.

So then I copy and past that whole project 6 times.

Its 8 mins long.

Render as WMV. FINE.
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cause to me is either number of files, number of keyframes or FX.

I had proved input media total file size as not the cause due to adding way more where render was failing but worked fine on output as low def.

Output file size not the issuse as something 6 times the length is fine.

It all stinks of Sony scams to me. Anyway. I’m too Irate. Keeping away from Vegas until I get a reply after the weekend.

[Joe Mantaratz]

Hey Paul I took the time to read all of your posts and can certainly see the frustration level you are dealing with. File size on the time line should have nothing to do with it. I routinely use 1 gig plus files and many of them with no hitch at all and on much lesser of a machine than you are running.

There are so many factors going on at the same time that it is hard to pinpoint where the problem is. What I find odd is that Vegas will render to a format that you cannot then again place on the time line. EX…AC3 audio.

As I had mentioned before when I finally got a hold of a real tech person I was able to have a direct line to them and he also provided me with their FTP (File transfer Protocol) so I could upload the files for them to test. It might be the extra step to help solve the riddle. Personally I think it is frustrating to have to constantly look for workarounds on every project. But like John Rofrano had mentioned the video world is non standard and with so many different formats from software to hardware the chances are pretty good there will be a hiccup. I use a free video file converter for my offending files and it has saved the day many times over. For me it is like having to dig into my kids play tools for a screwdriver because mine is broken. Vegas does have issues and unfortunately the users (us) are the beta testers and real time tech support.

Again sorry this does not shed light but I would take it in small steps and keep track of what you have done.