Help FCP5.0, Sony Z1U timecode breaks

[Dave Jenkins]

I’m having the same problem with footage I shoot with the FX-1. Two frames are missing everytime the camera stops and starts. At least that what it shows in the Browser.

Dajen Productions
Santa Barbara, CA
G5 Dual 2 Gig – AJA IO
Huge 1.2 Raid
FCP 4.5-OS X 10.3.8-QT 6.5

[Steve Connor]

Apparently this is “feature” that you can’t turn off – scene detection is always enabled with HDV, check the documentation.

Steve Connor
Cardinal HD

[John Treffer]

But what about if you capture an offline clip in the HDV format that bridges two shots?

If you can’t capture that the whole thing of offline clips seems to become a lot more limited.

[Duncan Craig]

My first commercial shoot on my new Z1.

Recording in HDV and Downconverting to DV in camera and capturing over FW to a Dual2GHz, lots of RAM, and totally reliable system, where my timelines are in UC10bit outputting through IO to DIGI. Never any problems with any of my other DV FW cameras (PDs and VXs). Or footage from DIGI/SX/SP. All captured to a HugeDualMax 1.2TB RAID over UL4PCI card.

I shot as normal, rec run TC. I logged the tape in order of setups, so one setup may have had 3 or takes with the camera stopping after each take.

Roughly a third of the time, FCP reported TC breaks where I had stopped recording, I didn’t change the battery, turn off the camera, or review any shots during the shoot. On ‘jogging’ through the tape in the camera, I can’t see the TC holes, or Jumps.

But seeing as I have never had this before over FW with my suite, it must be the camera right?!

The only thing I am yet to try is setting the camera back to Regen (I set it to preset and left it there) before you start recording, but wouldn’t that mess up my code when it starts recording. I will need to check this out sometime.

Good Luck.

[Ned Soltz]

FWIW, I have encountered TC breaks in every HDV capture I have attempted. I have not captured any HDV since FCP 5 since I do not have a Z1 here at the moment, but up to this point I have been using HDVxDV since it captured TC. TC breaks, and I have told Brad that HDVxDV does not handle TC breaks elegantly.. it basically stops. Additionally, I have gone component out of the Z1 to Component->SDI converter and SDI into a Kona 2, using firewire as deck control. This was in FCP 4.5. Again, TC breaks. I am wondering whether it might be worthwhile trying blacking a tape to stripe TC and then recording.

Ned Soltz

[Bouncing Account needs new email address]

[Ned Soltz] “I am wondering whether it might be worthwhile trying blacking a tape to stripe TC and then recording.”

There is no practical reason to pre-stripe a camera tape to avoid TC breaks (although it DOES add a nice extra hour of wear to the heads!)

This is because camcorders (Beta, DV, etc) do not do “Insert Recording” (which leaves any pre-recorded TC undisturbed on the tape).
Camcorders only ASSEMBLE (hopefully, they assemble accurately) which replaces EVERYTHING, including the TC.
So, even if you where to record on a “pre-striped” tape, the camera would record OVER any TC already there with new internally-generated numbers not based on the tape.
If the TC of the NEW recording somehow became a frame or two “off” with the “pre-stripe” at a stopping-point, you would be NO BETTER OFF than if the same thing happened with a NEW (unstriped) tape.

“Pre-striping” won’t even be a guarantee to SAVE you if you “check a take” and fail to stop the playback before a TC “reset” occurs. Many times at the end of a recording (even on a “pre-striped” tape) the glitch of the “coming out of record” will cause the camcorder’s TC reader/generator to reset or “jump”… same old problem.

[Johnw3d]

Same here with a Z1U, what a pain. So, I tried DVSHCap on the same tape and it came in smooth as silk, and reported *no* time code breaks. Are we sure it’s a TC break problem and not just a really, really helpful feature in FCP5?

John.

[Steve Connor]

When working in native HDV, scene detection is always turned on because of the GOP structure, there appears to be no way round it because of the way HDV compression works.

I’m no expert but it seems to be true. If you want to use native HDV you will have to get used to it.

Steve Connor
Cardinal HD

[Johnw3d]

Tom Wolsky posted a suggested reason for the clip-splitting on the Apple board. Starting & stopping recording on an HDV camera interrupts the GOP structure, since you might stop recording at any frame, usually not an I-frame. The thought is that FCP5’s native HDV editing requires consistent GOP structure within a clip, and so must split clips where the structure is interrupted. This is a good explanation, but it would be disappointing if true, since FCP5 already has to handle broken GOP structures as it plays through non-I-frame cuts and over clips that don’t end on a GOP boundary, so it seems reasonable it should be able to handle it within a clip.

I think this is going to annoy a lot of people who are used to load-the-whole-tape-and-slice-and-dice logging, until they get used to plying through all the clips a capture will now generate.

John.