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HDV. Very confusing.
Hi Guys,
I’m running a G4 dual 1.2 gigahertz with a Decklink Extreme capture card.
I’m slated to work on a feature, that proposes to shoot HDV. I’ve looked around on the internet and it sounds like a complete
nightmare. People talk about capturing in Imovie and converting to another codec, and then manually reinterting the timecode. Other people suggest using the apple intermediate codec to edit and the converting to another codec for output. But this work flow also talks about using a G5 with very fast raids. I have a G4 with a software raid, that can handle 8 bit and 10 bit uncompressed, but I have no idea about HDV. Now, Blackmagic is announcing that their new drivers with FCP 5 will support HDV.What’s the deal? If I capture with a decklink extreme, am I working with this footage as uncompressed HDV? Am I converting it to another codec? Can my dual 1.2 gigahetz processor even handle HDV at all? Is there an offline / online work flow for this format? If I my computer can’t handle uncompressed HDV is their on offline work flow that will work for me?
There is so much conflicting information out there about this format.
Anyone who can enlighten me, would be appreciated.
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8 Replies
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The biggest thing, at least for me, to know about HDV is it’s like a DVD: the data is a MPEG stream with GOPs and all sorts of interpolated stuff. And it’s *heavily* compressed…. Now Final Cut 5 will allow you to natively EDIT this MPEG stream, even breaking up GOP… (I saw the demo at NAB, was impressed. apparently it was an engineering nightmare) and I’d imagine Blackmagic will display it for you on a HD monitor (?). But I’d imagine this would be a processor heavy operation and might eat your G4 for lunch.
personally I’m not sold at all on HDV. It seems like a really long stretch to cheat yourself into HD world. That and the “progressive” format just has a weird cadence that doesn’t sit well with my eyes. We’re supposed to be posting on a feature ourselves and they’re talking HDV…. I hope they can wait for the new Panasonic DVCPROHD camera (fall 2005) – seems like a much better budget HD solution.
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Hi Julian,
HDV is a codec used with high definition video. The DeckLink Extreme card is a standard definition card and cannot be used to play out in high definition, although it is capable of downconverting HD material on playback using any of the DVCPRO HD, uncompressed 8-bit or 10-bit codecs.
To use HDV with DeckLink, you will need Final Cut Pro HD v5.0 and a DeckLink HD series card with a dual-processor G5 and PCI-X slots. You may be wondering why you might need such a fast machine given that iMovie HD reputedly supports HDV on iMacs. The reason is that you can use Final Cut Pro v5.0 to play out from your HDV video as uncompressed video and this is very demanding on your computer. The uncompressed video plays out through any DeckLink HD series card which is necessary if you want to output to a deck, such as a HDCAM or D5, via uncompressed HD-SDI.
The good news is that if you have the right equipment, it is a simple process. You can use Final Cut Pro HD v5 to capture your HDV via FireWire. Drop that in to a Blackmagic HDV timeline and you can play out to a monitor and/or HD deck. You will need a dual-processor G5 with PCI-X slots and any DeckLink HD series card for this to work.
HDV is a highly compressed format and is useful for capturing from a HDV camera. We also support the DVCPRO HD codec which is great quality and is not compressed in the same way as HDV. Both formats have their pros and cons and have specific uses. One nice thing about DVCPRO HD is that we can both capture and playback to this codec whereas it is only possible to playback HDV via a DeckLink HD series card.
Regards,
Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design -
I personally refuse to do HDV editing, even with Lumiere, which will let you work with FCP 4.5:
I did oine project a few months ago, and it was such a pain, I just decided that was my last HDV project. It’s pretty much a nightmare all around. If they haven’t shot it yet, tell them they need to step up to DVCPRO HD or HDCAM. Also, it is an anamophic format (1.33 pixel aspect ratio) so you’re not even getting full resolution. I think HDV looks horrible too.
I’m so tired of people using consumer technology for professional purposes.
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You are entitled to your opinion, we have finished a few projects and I think it looks great!
Steve Connor
Cardinal HD -
It’s fine for wedding videos and local corporate work, but to shoot a whole feature is just asking for a nightmarish post production process. MPEG-2 is not, nor was it ever intended to be a production format.
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“I’m so tired of people using consumer technology for professional purposes.”
It doesn’t matter what the technology is, it’s the person USING it that’s the professional.
Steve Connor
Cardinal HD -
Hi Luke,
I currently have a Decklink Extreme on a 2.5 G5, and am on the verge of buying a 2nd G5 that will be primarily be used for SD work.
I would like to have HD/HDV capabilites on the new system even though 95% of the work I’ll be doing will be SD via BetaSP (UVW 1800).
Couple of questions:
1. How do I convert my component outs (and sometimes composite out from other decks) from my beta deck to feed a HD series card via SDI?
2. How will I monitor on my Sony PVM 20″ NTSC through a HD series card?
3. Is there anything else I need to be thinking about when working 95% in SD with a HD series card?
4. Which Blackmagic products would you recomend for me to make this work?
Thanks in advance…
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Thank you for this info
Will the extreme provide an ntsc monitor out with an HDV timeline in FCP5. also i like the wokflow you spoke of: capture HDV firewire then output to a SD/downconvert from a DVCproHD timeline of the HDV material is this correct ?
Playimage Inc. / FCP 4.5 HD
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