HDV, FCP to Avid via Automatic Duck.

[Shane Ross]

First off, get out of the offline/online mindset. Get out of that now. There is no need for offlining of this at all. Just creating more work for yourself. And forget the Avid…do everything with FCP.

Second, DV and HDV have roughly the SAME DATA RATE….both run at about 13.6 GB/hour. So capturing at DV resolution then recapturing at HDV resolution saves zero space.

Here’s what you do. Capture everything as HDV native…via firewire…no need for a Kona unless you want to monitor for color correction and output to higher end format like HDCAM or D5. Edit HDV native. In the SEQUENCE SETTINGS under RENDER CONTROL, in the CODEC drop down menu, choose PRO RES as the rendering codec. This way when you render, you are no longer in an 8-bit HDV long GOP format, but rather in a 10-bit I-Frame format, and your renders and color correction will come out cleaner. Then you render and output. No need to reconform the footage to anything, just output what you have to HDCAM tape via the Kona.

Oh, and you can do all of this on firewire 800 drives. Internal SATA drives on a MacPro or external eSATA or PCIe drives would get your better results, but really, HDV and even regular ProRes (not HQ) only require a good firewire 800 raid. And no need to go ProRes HQ…all it does is take up more space…it looks identical to ProRes…IMHO.

FCP makes this so easy that when I see people still using Avid, and spending TONS of money to accomplish what I can at a fraction of the cost I have to shake my head.

So get out of the Avid mentality and into the FCP mentality. You’re sanity will thank you.

Shane

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[Scott Davis]

Dear sweet Jesus I wish it was so simple Shane. I agree with you utterly but the client is pretty deadset on the off-line/on-line mindset. My biggest hurdle is to try and convince them of the common sense of going all FCP. If not I have to figure out the Avid online way.

Scott Davis

[Shane Ross]

Did you tell them about the low data rate of HDV? Is there any way to demonstrate this?

I know all too well the mentality you are up against. I had to petition for TWO MONTHS to get my producers and the production company to switch to FCP. Even though I told them that I did three History Channel specials with this exact workflow, they kept trying to look at the numbers against Avid, and say how rock solid the offline/online is. They could not believe that I was full res all the way, that I didn’t have to set aside a week to recapture, shift clips, output to tape, take to a colorist, tape to tape color, output, capture to add titles, output again.

I had to present them with a side by side comparison of the AVID workflow vs FCP workflow, and FCP was 4 steps (capture, edit, color, output), while the Avid one was 7 steps (capture, edit, recapture at high res, output to tape, color correct, capture for titling, output)…and how that saved time, money, and steps in the process where issues can arise. It was VERY difficult to convince them. And it wasn’t until I brought in my colorist that they started listening. Since he worked at Matchframe (highly respected post facility) and designed HD facilities, they listened to him.

This is the same thing that happened when Avid was encroaching on the editors cutting on KEMS and Moviolas. So I don’t know what to say? Explain the cost savings…money usually gets people’s attention. And the fact the DV and HDV take up the same amount of storage space ought to say something.

Shane

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[Walter Biscardi]

[Shane Ross] “Even though I told them that I did three History Channel specials with this exact workflow, they kept trying to look at the numbers against Avid,”

I’ll toss in about 70 HD episodes for Food Network HD, a 5 part HD series for PBS and a 13 part HD series for PBS. Sprinkle in some HD Documentaries and some BluRay titles and I’d say FCP is quite handy for HD broadcast.

Stay in FCP, keep it simple if you can. Avid mentality is tough to break and it doesn’t always work, but if you can keep it to one platform and stay online all the way, you’ll be much better off.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Shane Ross]

[walter biscardi] “I’ll toss in about 70 HD episodes for Food Network HD, a 5 part HD series for PBS and a 13 part HD series for PBS. Sprinkle in some HD Documentaries”

Yeah yeah….my shows take longer to do…being 2 hour shows and all. Hee.

But we are doing this workflow in a shared storage environment, XSAN, again, FULL RES DVCPRO HD for the History Channel. 15 Episodes…

Shane

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[Scott Davis]

Ok. I will work up a proposal with numbers involved. Can you guys recommend a superb FCP/Color Colorist in NYC?

Scott Davis

[Walter Biscardi]

[Scott Davis] “Ok. I will work up a proposal with numbers involved. Can you guys recommend a superb FCP/Color Colorist in NYC?”

Not sure what PostWorks New York uses, but those guys have been a great help for us in PAL to NTSC conversion.

If you really want to go all out, CineFilm here in Atlanta has daVinci artists who now can work on Color as well. They’re very FCP savvy and great guys who work with clients all over the country by simply shipping hard drives around. cinefilmlab.com

That’s actually what I’m doing right now. I’m doing the color grade for a 13 part PBS series here in Atlanta, but the show is being cut on FCP in New York. They Media Manager and ship each episode down on a hard drive, I grade the show in Color, then ship the show back up to them for Mastering. A few kinks at first, but it’s working well now with 2 shows completed, 2 shows in Color grade now and 9 more on the way. My first time working in ProRes HD (HQ).

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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[Bob Flood]

Hey all

Lemme tag onto waht shane is saying by adding this, which comes from experience: Recapturing HDV material is unreliable. The Good VTRs that can shuttle and cue in our lifetime ie fast are not cheap, AND due to the nature of HDV you cannot be guaranteed Frame accuracy.

IF you have to “finish” on an avid, investigate moving the media from fcp to avid, rather than recaptureing. I do not know how feasible this is. you may have to capture into fcp at 8 or 10 bit uncompressed, or some other codec that avid can support.

Another approach is follow shanes workflow to create a superless submaster out of fcp, either to tape or video file, and capture that into avid for finishing. Use the Automatic Duck to create a timeline in avid, but only recapture specific shots or scenes if you have to, like for layering or something. At least that way most of the heavy lifting of editing is done in FCP

hope this helps

“I like video because its so fast!”

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.

[Arnie Schlissel]

[walter biscardi] “Not sure what PostWorks New York uses, but those guys have been a great help for us in PAL to NTSC conversion.”

PostWorks uses Pandora Pogle, but they’re familiar with FCP workflow. You can also take a look at DuArt (DaVinci, as of this writing, but they’re looking at newer DI solutions).

Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog