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HD workflow, concatenation etc
Hi,
I posted this over on the HD forum but didn’t get much response, it follows on from a post I made over here a week or so ago –
hope you guys can help me out here. I’ve searched around the forum but don’t think I’ve found a definitive answer.
This is going to be the jump up from SD to HD and I’m trying to get my head round the variables.
Currently I’ve got a FCP (5.1.4) system working very well on a Dual 2Ghz G5 with scsi raid attached. I’m going to cut a documentary film for NatGeo/BBC that’s due to be shot on an F900 HDCAM and I need to figure out a workflow to do this.
Ideally I’d like to get a Kona LH or Decklink HD to stick in the G5 and then work in DVCPRO HD all the way through. But does adding the DVCPRO HD compression to the already compressed HDCAM footage cause problems with artefacts? Is this method acceptable for delivery to NatGeo? Can QC detect multiple compression cycles?
If this method is acceptable is the G5 really up to it? I know technically it should be fine but in reality is it going to be a grind as I wait for it to keep up?
Would I be better biting the bullet with a new macpro rig with internal SATA storage and working in prores? And if so what are the relative merits of BM multibridge pro vs IOHD vs Kona3. Does the prores codec cripple the processors? Or is the responsiveness of a PCI card more important against delays in the FW chain? I work exclusively in broadcast so I don’t think 2K / 4:4:4 is that relevant to me at this time.
The plan is to edit in HD then hand over either project + media or a layback to HD for an online editor to finish (seeing as this is a first I’d rather take a back seat and learn from an expert) and deliver on SR.
Finally any thoughts on how it’s shot in the first place – NatGeo want a 59.94 1080i master but it’s BBC too so they’ll probably want a 50i master, also there may well be 50i PAL SD archive footage to go in – I’m wondering if it’s best to shoot and edit it 50i then convert to 59.94 at the very end. The producer seems keen on shooting HDCAM F900 but I guess it would serve the edit well if he shot it Varicam or HDX900, then I could work native DVCPRO HD. He’s also asked about thoughts on progressive vs interlaced – as an old school filmmaker I reckon he’d prefer progressive – would that swing it more towards the panasonic?
Lots of questions I know but really appreciate any advice I can get.
Thanks
Rob -
3 Replies
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[Rob Alexander] “But does adding the DVCPRO HD compression to the already compressed HDCAM footage cause problems with artefacts?”
Not really. This is a good choice, but I’d run a couple tests. This might be a good OFFLINE cutting codec, and you might want to recapture when done as uncompressed HD when it comes time to master to tape. I would suggest ProRes, but you cannot capture ProRes to a non-intel mac.
[Rob Alexander] “Is this method acceptable for delivery to NatGeo?”
You gotta ask them. But I can say that I have edited DVCPRO HD footage shot with the Varicam and output to D5 for a NatGeo series and that was fine. But, you gotta ask them. Personally, I’d weigh the option of recapturing as uncompressed. I’d test both.
[Rob Alexander] “Can QC detect multiple compression cycles?”
Yes. But HDCAM acquisition doesn’t count as a compression cycle. Capturing that as DVCPRO HD, then outputting to D5 or HDCAM most likely will not show any loss in quality. It sounds like a good workflow. Going uncompressed is going an additional step that would result in FAR LESS compression then the DVCPRO HD capture. But you gotta weigh your options. Can you recapture, or do you want to live with the DVCPRO HD compression. For me, all my footage is shot with the Varicam or HVX-200, so I am already married to that compression. But with HDCAM, you have more options…better options, open to you.
[Rob Alexander] ”
If this method is acceptable is the G5 really up to it? I know technically it should be fine but in reality is it going to be a grind as I wait for it to keep up?”It’s up to it. Just need a decent RAID that can handle uncompressed if you go that route. The Dual 2.0 G5 can handle DVCPRO HD no problem, and without much more than firewire 800 drives (eSATA recommended, or ePCIe). But if you want to go uncompressed, then a good raid like the Caldigit HDPro, Sonnet D800 or Dulce Systems ProDQ might be something to look at. I have a Dual 2.0 G5 that handles this fine…because I have a decent raid. Would a MacPRo be better? Yes, but it isn’t a necessity.
[Rob Alexander] “relative merits of BM multibridge pro vs IOHD vs Kona3.”
This you have got to research on your own. Know what the capabilities of the options are and what your needs are. If you need to cross convert 720p to 1080p when you output your master, the AJA options are the ONLY way to go. BM are good cards, and not too expensive, but they lack certain hardware capabilities of their competitors. If you need the hardware capabilities, then go that route. If you need realtime ProRes encoding and handling, then the I/O HD is a good option, but you need a MacPro for it. If you want in depth reviews of all the options, you really ought to hire an HD consultant. Bob Zelin is a great option, as is Mike Curtis of HDforIndies.com. Larry Jordan too… Get advice from experts, not only peicemeal advice from us here. We cannot give you full picture advice in a forum. If you have no clue, then you need a consultant.
[Rob Alexander] “The plan is to edit in HD then hand over either project + media or a layback to HD for an online editor to finish (seeing as this is a first I’d rather take a back seat and learn from an expert) and deliver on SR.”
All the more reason to get a consultant. You need to figure out a solid workflow before you even start shooting.
Shane
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First of all, if you know for sure you are going to need PAL anything, I’d shoot 24p (or 23.976 HDCam) as the case may be.
Ditch the Lh and go for a Kona 3X so that you can do a 720p23.976 DVcPro HD ‘offline’. that computer working @ dvcproHD 720p24 will be great. You can then take your offline and do an online @ 1080psf23.98. From there, you can easily make you 1080i50 and i60 masters as well as your PAL SD master. 24p -> Any other format is much easier then 60i -> anything but 60i.
And as Shane says, find out your deliverables. You say you don’t need 4:4:4 but SR is 4:4:4.
Jeremy
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thanks guys, very informative 🙂
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