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HD to SD workflow hell!! (I am in it!)
I searched the forums for help on this, and while I saw bits and pieces of info that helped…
I have started a new project, and am in a bit of a bind. I’m hoping someone here can help me get out of it.
Typically for our projects we will shoot HD (with a sony Z1U) and then capture and edit them on an SD timeline in fcp 5.1.4. This will result in the ever so popular 16:9 image letter boxed in a 4:3 output, down converted to SD. This has worked fine for a while….but now our new client threw us a twist.
They want us to shoot and edit in HD, planning to output in SD, but also leaving the option to output the project to HD “down the line”. My plan was to edit on an HD timeline, and then simply output with an SD setting (instead of current settings, or uncompressed 8 or 10 bit as normal) to get our good old letter boxed standard output.
Tho i researched a few workflows for this online before i started, my true ignorance when it comes to HD and down converting has begun to shine even brighter than before. :/ Can anyone help? Am I even close on how I was going about this? Can I save the timeline I have already started editing on? Here’s a few more pieces of in fo to help.
1. I read the best way to get Hd footage into fcp was to import it with iMovie in HD, then import those captured files into FCP. This seems to have worked just fine. Quality is great.
2. the HD timeline I have set up has the following settings. HD (1440X1080) (16:9) aspect setting. square pixel aspect ratio anamorphic checked field dominance set to upper (odd) editing timebase 29.97 using the apple intermediate codec
3. I had the idea to create a quick setup DV timeline that is SD 4:3 with the NTSC DV 3:2 preset, copied my edited footage from the HD timeline, let it render away, and then exported it. This turned out *ok*, but the output file was not as high quality as when I edit the whole thing on an SD timeline in my previously mentioned “old workflow”.
Am I totally screwed? Is there a way I SHOULD have done this? or am I just missing step? I need to output a portion of this friday, and am starting to get panicked. :/
Thanks in advance,
Damionp.s.- any “here’s the correct workflow” replies would be greatly appreciated to help in the future….but please don’t simply tell me how wrong my workflow is. I admit to still being confused with MANY aspects of the HD workflow…and I know I most likely screwed this up in the setup. :/
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7 Replies
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[Damion Demeter] “1. I read the best way to get Hd footage into fcp was to import it with iMovie in HD, then import those captured files into FCP. This seems to have worked just fine. Quality is great.”
You read wrong. FCP captures HDV just fine, and does so with the ever important time code information. iMovie does not capture with TC information…and only captures as AIC, not native HDV like FCP can.
[Damion Demeter] “2. the HD timeline I have set up has the following settings. HD (1440X1080) (16:9) aspect setting. square pixel aspect ratio anamorphic checked field dominance set to upper (odd) editing timebase 29.97 using the apple intermediate codec”
Why aren’t you capturing and working as native HDV?
[Damion Demeter] “3. I had the idea to create a quick setup DV timeline that is SD 4:3 with the NTSC DV 3:2 preset, copied my edited footage from the HD timeline, let it render away, and then exported it.”
So by SD delivery you mean DV? SO the quality is less when you copy and paste the clips from an HD timeline to a DV timeline and rendering than if you edited and rendered on a DV timeline to begin with? Seems odd…the same thing is happening, dropping an HD clip onto an SD timeline and rendering. Remember, you cannot judge the quality of your footage using your computer monitors, you must use an external monitor connected to the system. Broadcast monitor would be best, but a TV will work fine.
Shane
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[Damion Demeter] “1. I read the best way to get Hd footage into fcp was to import it with iMovie in HD, then import those captured files into FCP. This seems to have worked just fine. Quality is great.”
Never heard that one before, I would not do this, I would only use FCP all the way around.
[Damion Demeter] “3. I had the idea to create a quick setup DV timeline that is SD 4:3 with the NTSC DV 3:2 preset, copied my edited footage from the HD timeline, let it render away, and then exported it. This turned out *ok*, but the output file was not as high quality as when I edit the whole thing on an SD timeline in my previously mentioned “old workflow”.”
This is because HD is Upper Field First and DV is Lower Field First. Your resulting file will not be very clean.
[Damion Demeter] “Am I totally screwed? Is there a way I SHOULD have done this? or am I just missing step? I need to output a portion of this friday, and am starting to get panicked. :/”
Purchase an AJA Kona card or AJA Io HD and let it do the HD to SD downconverion in realtime. That’s the easiest and cleanest way to perform HD to SD downconversion. You simply edit in HD, downconvert later.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR
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[Shane Ross] “You read wrong. FCP captures HDV just fine, and does so with the ever important time code information. iMovie does not capture with TC information…and only captures as AIC, not native HDV like FCP can.”
Hmm, then why did I keep reading fcp can not capture and edit native HD unless you run it through iMovie like I did? :/
Edit: I just re-read the article on kenstone.net….and it was for fcp 4.5. Did fcp 5 change this? Maybe that is where I went wrong. (Here’s a link to the article in case you wanted to see what steps I followed.
https://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_hdv_raid_soltz.html
[Shane Ross] “Why aren’t you capturing and working as native HDV?”
See….I thought I was. :/
Would it be possible for you to tell me your workflow for editing HD and then down converting to DV (without the use of a kona card…I can’t afford one just yet). I would sure appreciate it since it sounds like you are much more familair with best practices for HD than I am.
I know I just need to get the best practice workflow and timeline settings down…there’s just a lot I am not so sure of in the HD world still.
-D
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[walter biscardi] “This is because HD is Upper Field First and DV is Lower Field First. Your resulting file will not be very clean.”
Is there any way around this? I read somewhere also that the standard def timeline should have the field dominance set to none. Is this to avoid the problem you are talking about?
-D
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[Damion Demeter] “I just re-read the article on kenstone.net….and it was for fcp 4.5. Did fcp 5 change this? Maybe that is where I went wrong”
Yeah…FCP 4.5 came out before HDV was introduced, therefor there was no native support. A version of iMovie cam out after, so it could recognize the signal, and then convert to an editable format. LumiereHD and HDVxDV were other options to get HDV into FCP for editing…and both encoded to AIC.
[Damion Demeter] “Would it be possible for you to tell me your workflow for editing HD and then down converting to DV (without the use of a kona card…I can’t afford one just yet).”
It wouldn’t be possible as I don’t do it without the Kona card. I always use the Kona. Sorry.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog! -
[Shane Ross] “It wouldn’t be possible as I don’t do it without the Kona card. I always use the Kona. Sorry.”
Well, what should my settings for my HD timeline be? The “I thought you were editing native HD” made me think I had my settings jacked up.
In the future I will just capture HDV directly from my drive into FCP, and I will do the same timeline down conversion since it seems to be the way to do it without a kona card (btw I did export it in a way that looked nice…so that problem was solved with a little trial and error) but if you could let me know the timeline settings I should be using…next project I should be at least starting with the correct settings for everything.
Thanks for all the info. it’s helped.
-D
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Drop the HDV footage into a DV timeline. That’s it. Final Cut Pro will automatically correct the aspect ratio for non-square pixels, and it will automatically shift the fields by 1 line to compensate for the field dominance change. Final Cut Pro 5 does this by added a “Shift Fields” filter. FCP 6 just shifts it in the Motion tab.
Do no create custom sequences.
Sean
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