HD Multiclip editing in FCP7

[Shane Ross]

It does. But you are trying to play back 9 streams of video. That requires a LOT of hard drive speed. You need a 5-8 drive RAID capable of 200-500MB/s.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Simon Green]

I have a 16 drive RAID with 16TB storage (Sonnet Fusion RX1600Fibre with Quad 8GB-0TB) running using fibre cables through Gigabit switch (Netgear GS108 8 Port Compact Gigabit Switch ) so speed should not really be an issue surely?

[Shane Ross]

Ahh…well stating that initially would help.

Well, it might have to do with the fact that GOP formats are very processor intensive, and playing back one or two streams is taxing on the system…but then trying 9 might just be overwhelming. I would suggest convering everything to ProRes…even ProRes LT to save space. And then try. I’ll wager you’ll have better luck.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Don Walker]

Simon
Like Shane says a version of ProRes would probably be the best way to go. I’ve been working on a 6 camera HD shoot, from P2, HDV and AVCAM sources, everything is at ProRes PROXY which though a very low HD codec is defiantly good enough to edit to. I will Up-convert to HQ when I’m done and have final client approval.
Don Walker

John 3:16

[Simon Green]

But surely XDCAM, with a data rate of 7.1 mbps is not overly taking – even with 7 streams- thats like 2 ProRes streams. This is quite a flaw for FCP. What do they do when people are cutting concerts with 16 cameras!

[Shane Ross]

It’s not the MB/s…or mbps… it’s the GOP format. It isn’t a standard I-FRAME format. 3 real frames with a bunch of picture (Group of Pictures…GOP) that guesstimate at what the image will be. There is a LOT of math involved in that guesswork, so it is processor intensive. Throw 9 streams at it and WHOO boy.

Do a test. Convert 2 min sections of 9 clips and then multiclip those. Convert to ProRes. See what happens.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Jesper Kodahl andersen]

hi Simon

Don’t know if you fixed this problem by converting to prores, but I seriously doubt it! Let me just tell you about my own experience:

I’ve tried in two different edit suites to make multicam happen. Different setups, different versions of final cut (6.0.3 -> 7.0.1) different codecs (ProRes HQ, ProRes proxy, DV PAL, XDCAM EX 1080i25) with IO hardware (Decklink Pro ver1, Decklink Pro Ver2) without anyhardware. One suite had disk throughput of above 350MB per second the other one more than 650MB per second.

I tell you…….(counting to ten here) it sucks! When you have less hardware attached it crashes less, but there is no way in H… that FCP is not going to crash when you work on serious multicam editing with a big system.

The different combinations I’ve been through are too countless to mention, just trust me, it’s not even close to perfected yet!

Just though I’d share your pain a bit here, should know that you’re not alone! Just wish Apple would take the pro community serious for once and put out a FCP that is rock solid instead of pouring more programming into it that isn’t.

Cheers
Jesper

[Shane Ross]

FCP isn’t as rock solid as another NLE (*cough* Avid *cough*) when it comes to multicam editing, that is true. Why is Avid so good? Well, one big thing is that Avid requires all media to be EXACTLY the same before you group them. Avid requires that all media be Avid media before you edit. Some people find that restricting, while others find that a blessing. I find it to be a blessing. But that isn’t to say that it doesn’t work at all. That might have been YOUR experience, but that isn’t EVERYONE’S experience.

I have been on shows where it was cut with 4-8 cameras, multicam, and all was fine! Well, it was cut at an offline quality, so that might have helped it. Again, everything as one format.

I tend to notice that a lot off issues that happen are due to pilot error. Because FCP is so open and so versatile and so accepting of formats, it makes it VERY easy to mess things up. Avid is nice and closed and forces you to work within a rigid set of rules, but because of that, things tend to work well. But if you are take time, use your brains, and plan well, you can make everything one format and force the footage in FCP to be what you need it to be to work. It does take more effort, but it is VERY possible to have things work fine in FCP.

Tough to do when you are used to the NLE forcing all the restrictions beforehand, and doing all the work for you.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Jesper Kodahl andersen]

Well I guess the Avid word was going to come up sooner or later. Avid sure has it’s idiosyncrasies, but as you point out, it’s limited in it’s approach to media input and therefore more prone to work once you actually get to the editing. But hey I’m always working in FCP. Mostly because it’s not limiting me.

But having edited film on Steenbeck flatbed tables and U-Matic machines I have been around the block for a while. I didn’t break into this biz yesterday and you couldn’t know, but when I said it doesn’t work well, I’m saying it with some experience under my belt. I have indeed rooted all the banal errors out of the process. But when four streams of ProRes (proxy) approx. 4,7MB per stream per sec still crashes 6-10 times a day on two different systems that can deliver over 650 Megs per second, there’s something shifty inside the code.

Now it could be a PAL issue, I can’t talk about NTSC users since I’ve never gone there, but that still doesn’t excuse Apple from some sort of solution. It could be hardware related that it works on “some” laptops, and maybe on some MP’s but this is not a bingo game where I hope that the hardware I’m buying is the hardware that just happens to work with multicam editing.

Sorry, I don’t want to sound like a sourpuss, I love Apple like the next guy, but hey if you’re family you have to be able to call it like you see it
;O)
Jesper

[Christer Molander]

Jesper is dead-on right.
Now when we are in 7.0.2 the same problems in multicam-cam editing are still there. FCP crashes, hangs and won´t do what I tell it to do.
I´ve tried two different approaches to my latest project.
Four stream with the original files, XDCAM HD 422 – not converted, all 4 streams the same.
The other one is with same material converted to ProRes422 HQ.
Tried on MP late 2009, 6GB RAM, Aja IoHD and Sonnet Fusion DX800RAID connected with a ATTO R380 2-channel SAS, Aja System Test measured to about 620MB/s.

FCP is barely getting me thru. It hangs, behaves strange and does not at all works as it did with DV-material a few years back.

Me also thinks fishy code somewhele….