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HD grading monitor shortlist
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[Catalin Brylla] “Walter, you are saying that you see hot colours and dark blacks on consumer LCDs and Plasmas. This happened to me on my last project. Does this mean that when I grade (with a grade 1 monitor) I should slightly desaturate and increase the blacks? Do most consumer screens over-saturate and over-contrast?”
What I am saying is that when a consumer gets a TV, very often they simply turn it on and leave it. Every LCD or Plasma Screen I have seen fresh out of the box is usually set to something called “Cinema” or “Vivid” which means extremely bright colors and very solid blacks.
This does NOT affect what you are doing. You must deliver the show or movie per the professionally calibrated monitor you use in your edit suite. What happens after that is beyond your control. You cannot “assume” anything with the consumer. you deliver the product you know is correct and let it go.
For instance I delivered 66 episodes of “Good Eats” to the Food Network in HD. The only two places I have ever watched it and have it look exactly as I delivered it is in my studio and in my home. We have a Panasonic Professional Plasma screen in our family room and I have it set pretty much the way I have my studio models set up. At my mom’s house, they have their colors up so hot the reds are screaming, but that’s how they like it and so that’s how it looks. Do I adjust what I’m doing on my end, no because that’s not how it works. I set up everything to look proper in the professional environment.
If you start tweaking your image to how it “might look” on someone’s TV, then you’re in a lot of trouble because no two TV’s look alike.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.
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[walter biscardi] “If you start tweaking your image to how it “might look” on someone’s TV, then you’re in a lot of trouble because no two TV’s look alike. “
Walter and I are telling you precisely the same thing Catalin.
The colorist must be able to grade with confidence, secure in the knowledge that they are delivering a work product that is within legal specifications and that looks as it was intended on most displays.
You do your best and just hope that the viewing public gets to see the product on TVs that allow them to see your product as it was meant to be seen. You never know that, but at least you will be secure in knowing that there won’t be any big “surprises” for the majority of viewers, because you delivered a product that is both technically and artistically as intended.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
EPK Colorist – UP IN THE AIR – nominated for six academy awards
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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Thanks for clarifying this, Walter and David. This has bugged me for some time.
As for my monitoring options, the Flanders is not an option any more as import duty and VAT would bring the price up to £2400.
I have shortlisted the following two:
TV Logic LVM-172WE – 17”
Res: 1366 x 768
HD-SDI, component, DVI-I
1:1 mode with HD
Contrast: 900:1
£1935
[https://www.dsvideo.tv]or
JVC DT-V20L3D – 20”
Res: 1680×1050
HD-SDI, component, DVI-I
1:1 mode with HD (1920 x 1080 pixel array)
Contrast: 700:1
£2100
[https://www.jvcpro.co.uk]Has anyone had experience with the two to compare? People criticise the viewing angle of the JVC, but the size is a plus point in my opinion.
Catalin Brylla
Filmmaker – Editor – Lecturer
http://www.catalinbrylla.com
Mobile: 07789004745
Skype: cbrylla -
[Catalin Brylla] “Has anyone had experience with the two to compare? People criticise the viewing angle of the JVC, but the size is a plus point in my opinion.”
Sorry, not with these. The TV Logic we’ve had in the past was not nearly as good as the FSI and I don’t use any JVC products at all.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.
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hi there
let’s throw a little bomb in this thread.
how do you discribe a grade1 monitor
what is it???
where do you use it for???
how do you use it???
and most important why do you use it???and next to that how do you discribe a picture???
a picture can look GOOD
a picture can look FAITHFULL.looking GOOD is a OPINION which can not be measured !!
but is the thing you want to communicate.
looking faithfull is a FACT which can be measured !!
but often is not the thing you want to communicate.in my opinion a grade1 monitor is the following.
a grade 1 monitor is a measurement device!!!
it is not designed to look good.
it is designed to show the truth.
as all measurement device’s it references to a standard.
an important thing about measuring is that you know your reference.
or in other words if you don’t know your reference you are not measuring at all.(youur very expensive monitor is useless)
the standard we are referencing to is a standard that has a
correlation whith the standard we use in our camera’s.
if the camera conform to the standard and the display conforms to the standard it will reproduces faithfull picture’sthe consumer display manufacters must make there display’s
to follow these standard’s (off coarse with some greater deviation’s to the original standards to make it easier/cheaper to make).
to reproduce picture’s faithfull.or when we forget faithfull.
The feeling/emotion/message which a colorist put’s in a production.
must be communicated by the displaybut this is where it all goes wrong
take for instance colorbalance.
we all produce whit our great grade 1 monitors that white is 6500K
but in the average home display white is not 6500K anymore.all display’s are tweaked so the look great in the store.
there is some birdcage effect here. (the blueest will win)
once the TVset arrive’s home the display setting mostly will not be changed. mostly because people will think it is good out of the box.the same can be said for lightoutput and contrast.
all display’s are made to survive in the store.
not to look good in the home!this makes that your program how well it looked on the grade1 monitor.
still will not be reproduced faithfull at your audience.
or will communicate your message biased by the greed of the displaymanufacter’s!!! <== wow did i wrote this down 😉 don't get me wrong i think we ALL must use our standard's. to get thing's right, but standard's lose there power when they are ignored somewhere in the process. i have a strong feel that we are all trying to measure UTOPIA
and not trying to measure the real truth
which is“THE AVERAGE PERFORMANCE OF A CONSUMER DISPLAY SET”
grt
MauricePeople saying they don’t make mistake’s often make nothing at all!
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Maurice,
Farmers who grow the finest foods have no control over the cooks.
The manufacturers at Lamborghini can’t control who drives them.
And, those of us who perform color grading have no control over the way our work product is displayed by consumers.
So, as I said before, you just do your best, secure in the knowledge that you’ve output your product within the proper specs and as it was intended. Whether that means it’s faithful to reality or simply faithful to the vision of the filmmakers, if you know you’ve done your job properly, at least it will have its best chance of being properly displayed by the consumer.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
EPK Colorist – UP IN THE AIR – nominated for six academy awards
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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[maurice jansen] “how do you discribe a grade1 monitor
what is it???
where do you use it for???
how do you use it???
and most important why do you use it???”Very simply a Grade 1 monitor is one that meets the current broadcast and/or film specifications as defined by the appropriate engineering specs for the industry. We use it because we are professionals in the field and a professional uses the proper professional equipment before deciding to charge a client for our services.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.
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😉
i know what it is.
these question’s are more to trigger people
to think about it.grt
MauricePeople saying they don’t make mistake’s often make nothing at all!
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[maurice jansen] “these question’s are more to trigger people
to think about it. “So, does this make you a trigger man?
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
EPK Colorist – UP IN THE AIR – nominated for six academy awards
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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consumers pretty much open the box, and turn the LCD on. not much else except maybe a few play with the backlight.
the MXO2 output adjustment on the HDMI can help get more accurate and consistant colors from a consumer level set. the latest consumer sets make pretty nice pix these days, and I’ve looked at some “grade 1” LCD and thought they were flat. sure consumer sets tend to have a bit too much color, but you can easily turn that down on the MXO2 HDMI output. it took minimal fiddling to get my MXO2->HDMI->LCD to match my sony SD CRT
Steve Oakley
DP • Editor • VFX Artist
http://www.practicali.com
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