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HD from Avid offline to FC to AE
Dear experts,
We are having some trouble related to all 3 programs through the workflow I will describe. Any help would be much needed and thanked.
We shoot HD-CAM. Capture to Avid offline 1080i project.
One of the problems starts here – when exporting AAF through AutoDuck to FCP we have noticed that unless we decompose in Avid before exporting the AAF, in FCP, the batch capture goes crazy (i.e. rewinds tape and starts capturing in in its entirety).
This is solved by decomposing, just wondered why it happens.Next problems concern FCP only. When we capture HD-CAM from HDW-1800 into 1080/50 (some settings using Hz call it 25; I think only when concerning the deck settings), we get a red render bar on the timeline. We capture 10bit uncompressed 4:2:2 through HD-SDI, through AJA DeckLink. Deck output is also set on 10-bit and we have tried capturing using the 50i system-freq and also 25psf. Also tried adjusting sequence field dominance but nothing works.
In all cases we get a red render line. What’s weird is that when rendered (10bit percision YUV) the RED turns YELLOW. Only after the next render it turns blue. When the sequences are short we have no problem to render, even twice. But when concerning long sequences in the past, we just captured it 8-bit.
I wouldn’t hassle you for these 2 extra bits unless we were talking about chroma-key shots that could benefit these extra bits, when keyed later in AE. The problem that the red-render-line creates in AE is described later.
One more thing, still in FCP concerns batch-capturing. In 1 case we had to capture 4 very similar versions of the same commercial. Strangely enough, FCP captures each clip 4 times – once for each sequence (i’m talking about clips that are edited exactly the same in all 4 versions – same IN-OUT). Was wondering if there’s a way to combine all sequences to a more efficient batch-capture, like in Avid. Again, in short seq’s ther’s no BIG problem. But in long ones…
Tried nesting all 4 seq’s to one, but doesn’t help.Last but not least. After capturing and fixing shiftsin FCP (rolling the shots within themselves a frame or two), we export XML and import it through AutoDuck to AE3. Shots that were shift-corrected in FCP turn out unfixed in AE. Therefore we would love some help concerning anything we did wrong in the process.
BTW, when capturing 8-bit to FCP, no red render-line and no problems later in AE3.
Yours sincerely,
Ori 🙂 -
6 Replies
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Firstly the HDCam HD SDI output will be 1080 50i so that is the best capture setting. If you open a new sequence and drag one shot into the sequence it will prompt to change settings. Say yes and then check the sequence settings to find out what is wrong with your original sequence settings. I suspect there is something slightly out with the settings as created by the Automatic Duck import and it may depend on what settings were in the AVID offline. The field dominance should be upper.
Normally I take an AAF import via Automatic Duck and then run it through Media Manager to create an offline project in the codec I want to recapture with. This also allows me to delete unused media (ie not include media not in the final cut) and set handles to something sensible so you are not recapturing the whole tape. This is also acheived by decomposing first in AVID but can be done later in Media Manager.
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[Michael Gissing] “Firstly the HDCam HD SDI output will be 1080 50i so that is the best capture setting.”
The AJA Kona presets only show the proper frame rates. So for a Kona preset you will see 1080 / 25 because the frame rate is actually 25fps, not 50. Just like “1080i / 60” actually shows up as a 1080 / 29.97 preset because that’s the actual frame rate. Wish everybody would list it correctly like that.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
[Ori Alon] “This is solved by decomposing, just wondered why it happens. “
I always recommend Avid editors decompose before sending a timeline to FCP. It’s sort of like a Nest in FCP, you would actually get a very similar behavior because some TC information is sort of “lost” behind a wall in the collapsed layers sent in from Avid.
Just make it a part of your workflow to decompose before going to FCP.
[Ori Alon] “we get a red render bar on the timeline”
My guess is you use the Automatic Duck to convert your project to FCP, but then you don’t create a new timeline in FCP with the codec you actually want to capture to. So in effect, you’re still in the “Avid codec” in FCP.
Here’s what I do. I use the Duck to bring the project to FCP and in the Duck Dialogue I choose a Kona preset that basically matches what the Avid sent over. So if you sent over an Avid 1080i/25 8bit timeline, I would choose AJA Kona 8bit 1080i/25 and let the Duck import.
So now you have a new Project with your Media Bin and a Sequence from the Avid project.
Now I would make sure FCP is in the Easy Setup I want to use to do the recapture for the online.
Create a New Sequence. (This will match my Easy Setup.)
Open the original Avid timeline and Copy All. Close that timeline.
Open the New Sequence and Paste. Now you’ve pasted all that original Avid timeline material into a new, properly set up FCP Sequence.
Batch Capture that new Sequence. You now have an FCP timeline with the proper codec material captured into an FCP timeline.
You may have to do a Select All > Right Click a clip > Remove Attributes if you see any red lines above your footage. Sometimes there are anamorphic issues with material that comes in from an Avid timeline, as in FCP thinks some of the original footage might anamorphic.
That’s pretty much it and how I do it all the time. No Media Manager. No “recompression” or anything like that.
Just be sure FCP is properly set up and you have a properly set up timeline BEFORE you redigitize the material.
Now the red render line you describe almost sounds like FCP is shifting fields on you for some reason which it should not. 1080i is Upper Field whether it’s PAL or NTSC. Are you truly doing a 1080i offline or are you using something like DV PAL for the offline? It almost sounds like you’re using a lower field first format for the offline and then FCP is applying a Shift Fields Filter unnecessarily. So you would just do a Select All > Right Click > Remove Attributes > Filters to get rid of that across the board.
We’ve done close to 100 Avid to FCP projects and haven’t really had much of an issue with them, even sending the shots into AE for special effects and chroma key.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Thank you very much.
I’ll be sure to try these advices on the upcoming project and keep you guys posted for the outcome.
Any ideas about multiple-sequences-batch-capture in FCP?
Yours sincerely
Ori 🙂 -
Dear Walter,
I tried your solution for the red-render-line:
imported through the duck (only tommorow will I know for sure what kind of offline project it was) using the Duck preset that matches the capture in FCP, not of the Avid (again, because I’m not absolutely sure what offline was it).
Put an easy-setup preset, copied the old seq, closed the timeline, opened the new (easy-setup matched) sequence and pasted.
Captured one of the shots. Still get a red render line.
Discarded all clip attributes – still red.More advice would be great, if you got.
I will check for the offline project resolution tommorow and let you know.A whole lot of thanks,
Ori 🙂 -
[Ori Alon] “Any ideas about multiple-sequences-batch-capture in FCP? “
Well when a project comes in from Avid you have a Master Clips bin created with all the clips required to capture. So just capture from there.
If you’re bringing over multiple sequences from Avid, just combine them all into one large master project and do a single Batch Capture of everything at once. The only issue you’ll have there is if you have any multiple clips that are the same name.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
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