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HD AVC is not necessarily AVCHD
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[Rick Williams] “I said HD AVC.”
HD AVC doesn’t exist.
Google the term, and aside this thread you won’t find nothing.[Rick Williams] “Not always. If you import an H.264/AVC media file in iMovie ’11, by DEFAULT the “Optimize” box is checked and if it is 1080, you will find the imported video (stored in the “Movies/iMovie Events” folder) has been transcoded to AIC as you say. HOWEVER, if you UNCHECK that box, iMovie brings the video into the Events folder in its native format (H.264/AVC HD in this case)…and plays in realtime, even with “effects” like transitions. You can double-check by using Quicktime (or any other) inspector on the imported video….it is EXACTLY as the original file, same size, same codec details, same everything. The benefit is video that doesn’t change doesn’t need to be decompressed/recompressed (think quality), and the stored file sizes are on the order of 1/10th the size of Apple Intermmediate Codec…and probably even much smaller ratio for ProRes.
So again, if iMovie can play/edit/add transitions, etc to this media in realtime (at least I find no discernable issue) on “computer/cpu X”…why can’t Final Cut Pro ?? It would make things quicker and easier for FCP users ?”
I don’t know much about iMovie.
If things are as you say, then you are working with a kind of Proxy file.
You start saying that this “the Non-Optimized” way.
Whats going on inside? Only Apple knows.
rafael -
Folks…it’s not a marketing term, it’s just a description of the video.
I believe video that is 1920x1080i, square pixel, 16×9 (and some other details)…counts as one of the formats that is practically universally considered to be high-def (HD) video. And H.264 = MPEG4-part10 = AVC. Therefore 1920x1080i, H.264 is accurately described as HD AVC, or you could say HD H.264, or any other combination of these terms.
However, “AVCHD” is a vendor-created(Panasonic & Sony ??) for a subset of the H.264/MPEG4-part10/AVC encoding parameters coupled with DD/AC3 audio encoding, and stored in an MPEG2 transport stream as a .mts or .m2ts file.No need to Google the term.
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[Rick Williams] “I believe video that is 1920x1080i, square pixel, 16×9 (and some other details)…counts as one of the formats that is practically universally considered to be high-def (HD) video. And H.264 = MPEG4-part10 = AVC. Therefore 1920x1080i, H.264 is accurately described as HD AVC, or you could say HD H.264, or any other combination of these terms.”
1920×1080 SQ and 1280×720 are the two HD standards, but that means nothing. Most of all consumer cameras are doing that today: Canon, Panas, JVC even the GO-Pro etc.
Basically all these cameras are using the same ACHD codec.
The point is that saying AVCHD or HD AVC technically changes nothing.[Rick Williams] “However, “AVCHD” is a vendor-created(Panasonic & Sony ??) for a subset of the H.264/MPEG4-part10/AVC encoding parameters coupled with DD/AC3 audio encoding, and stored in an MPEG2 transport stream as a .mts or .m2ts file.”
Vendor created or not at the end of the day PANA and SONY are the one are developing all the codecs, Pro or Consumer orientated.
The term AVC (Advanced video codec) belong to SONY and PANA too, and the term “HD AVC” it doesn’t exist on any technical paper. And in case that exist, its belong to them too. The term AVC is copyrighted by these companies.Rick, all the MP4 Standard is just a development of the old MPEG-2 standard (where PANA and SONY are part of the “Consortium” from the beginning).
MPEG-2 was too limited (422/8b, picture size,..etc) so they needed to wide the norm. They ended up with a container (MP4) able to carry many different codecs.But in the end you are right: Here we have mentioned only two codecs (MPEG-2 and H264). The rest are all containers. And here there are real market intentions. Basically they are complicating things for the user. They are packing the very same stuff on containers that needs different players. It wouldn’t be complicated to make a player for all that stuff.
rafael -
Rafael,
[Rafael Amador] “The term AVC (Advanced video codec) belong to SONY and PANA too,…”
I thought AVC was a standard developed by a joint committee of MPEG and ISO members. Below is from the ISO.org site;
“The MPEG-4 AVC standard, embodied in the International Standard ISO/IEC 14496-10 and the ITU-T recommendation H.264, is a specification for high quality video compression. Particularly applicable for high definition (HD) applications, it forms part of a series of MPEG-4 standards related to multimedia.”
It is standard 14496-10, it is also known as H.264 or MPEG4-part10…or AVC. If the encoded video is 1920×1080 then it is high-def H.264/AVC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC
[Rafael Amador] “The point is that saying AVCHD or HD AVC technically changes nothing.”
Yes it does. High definition video encoding using the H.264/MPEG4-part10/AVC algorithms and structures can be stored in many file formats/containers, such as the .MOV files I noted…but “AVCHD” (Pana/Sony) as was mentioned earliest on in this post is very specific as to what resolutions, accompanying audio formats, and file structures are used (ie; AC3 + MPEG2-ts .mts/.m2ts). And for whatever reason (and this is the point of this post) even though the video contained within the .mts files (which is H.264/AVC encoded video) might be the same as the H.264/AVC hi-def video contained within the .MOV files (there are common formats/resolutions), I can import and edit the H.264 .mov without transcoding into an intermmediate codec…but not the AVCHD/.m2ts ??
See this post as well from Steve Mullen;
https://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=12623005The 2nd post where he says “Don’t tell Sony and Panasonic that H.264/AVC is AVCHD! ” and adds a little more clarification.
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[Rick Williams] “I thought AVC was a standard developed by a joint committee of MPEG and ISO members. Below is from the ISO.org site;
“The MPEG-4 AVC standard, embodied in the International Standard ISO/IEC 14496-10 and the ITU-T recommendation H.264, is a specification for high quality video compression. Particularly applicable for high definition (HD) applications, it forms part of a series of MPEG-4 standards related to multimedia.””
Rick: Who do you think is that committee?
Who do you think is behind the MPEG Consortium?
Please read this. I copied from the PANASONIC AF-100 brochure:
Starts saying that AVCHD (and his logo) is a property of SONY and PANASONIC.
The ISO have recognized and registered the standard.[Rick Williams] “[Rafael Amador] “The point is that saying AVCHD or HD AVC technically changes nothing.”
Yes it does. High definition video encoding using the H.264/MPEG4-part10/AVC algorithms and structures can be stored in many file formats/containers………..,”
Can you point me to any implementation of the HD AVC codec?[Rick Williams] “See this post as well from Steve Mullen;
https://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=12623005“What he is simply saying is that something has been changed inside iMovie and know behaves different.
He is not really talking about two different kind of codecs.
That is what I understand.
Anyway should be interesting to know which camera is he talking about.
Cheers,
rafael -
Hi Rick,
I’ve read again the thread of Mr Muller.
What I see is that we are going nuts with marketing issues.
They are selling the same thing with different names.
That’s nothing new.
Think about FireWire (Apple) and iLink (SONY).
The same thing with two different market names.
Was developed together by both companies.
rafael -
Rafael,
Your paste from the Panasonic brochure is about AVCHD…and I’ve always agreed/understood that AVCHD is from Panasonic/Sony. But I’m talking about AVC/H.264/MPEG4-part10. I’ve described my understanding of AVCHD several times in this thread. And the title of the thread says it all.
[Rafael Amador] “Can you point me to any implementation of the HD AVC codec?”
There is another thread on the forums, where the poster writes “The codec is apparently Ambarella AVC encoder, 1280 x 720, 59.94.”
There are many, but at least in this case, there is the one from Ambarella, see below for more info;
It says in part; “…is targeted at high-definition (HD) camcorders using H.264/AVC compression technology.”
The video from the aformentioned poster is from a Kodak Zi8…in .mov format…not AVCHD, but it is AVC/H.264 encoded video, created by the Ambarella encoder/codec in a 1280x720p format. I have also seen the same but in 1920x1080p format.
-Regards
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Hi Rick,
I found this article that is very clarifying about the H264-family issues:
https://www.divergentmedia.com/blog/fullpost/h264_decoding_on_the_macHe points to the only real problem: ” Well, there are as many flavors of H.264 as there are members of the standards committee”.
A universal reader reader is what we need.
Cheers,
rafael
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