H.264 as editing format in FCP?

[Roli Rivelino]

FCP will accept H.264 but it’ll run like a 3 legged pig, you’ll have to transcode.

The reason these cameras use H.264 is that they’re still cameras with a video function, so their focus isn’t on giving you the best possible editing codec.

https://www.rolirivelino.com/

System
Mac Pro 2.8Gb quad core
8Gb RAM
1x 320Gb 7200 hardrive
1x 1Tb 7200 hardrive
Nvidia Geforce 8800 512mb Graphics card
1x 1Tb external WD ‘My Book’ eSata

Equipment
Panasonic AG-HVX 200
Firestore FS-100

[Greg Ondera]

H.264 runs like a two-legged pig in FCP7. Forget that third leg. The reason for that is that FCP7 has to re-assemble the codec on the fly in respects. That’s not the right technical term, but even codecs like XDCam don’t run as well as uncompressed video. Whenever you’re trying to edit compressed media you are likely to get problems, and I’m not talking about color compression but where the keyframes land in your codec. However, I’m am not sure, but possibly FCPX does the job.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org

[Shane Ross]

If you want to edit H.264 natively…get Adobe Premiere Pro CS 5.5. But then you’ll need a machine with a fast processor, an NVidia card to enable CUDA and the Mercury Engine, and a bunch of RAM. THEN you can edit it natively.

Yeah, the only “pro” camera that shoots H.264 is the DLSRs, and they are pro STILL cameras, not video cameras. People just use them as video cameras. If they were pro video cameras, they’d have XLR audio inputs, a decent built in mic…the ability to record longer than 12 minutes at time…

Shane
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[Mark Suszko]

Here’s the thing: H.264 is a darned beautiful codec.

It crams a better-looking HD picture into less space than does MPEG-2. The consumer/prosumer camera makers like H.264 and it’s cousin, MPEG 4, because they enable a lot more room to store longer recordings than a DV or MPEG-2 codec could. Nobody would buy a camcorder that could only record twenty minutes of high def max. Switch it to H.264 and the same camera can now tout that it records one or two HOURS on a cheap SDHC memory card or internal drive.

Since they are in the business of selling camcorders, and not so much selling editing systems, the camcorder makers at this level don’t really care all that much about the editing problems this creates.

Also, the lower-end camcorders are pitched towards people who don’t really edit in the first place, but who shoot 5 minute or shorter clips they feed raw to youtube or facebook.

Your editing choices, if you want to use these kinds of cheaper cameras, or still cameras shooting video, are to stay with FCP7 and use mpeg streamclip or ClipWrap to transcode or re-package these formats, or pick Adobe’s suite or FCP-x or Avid or Sony Vegas, which all claim to be able to handle this natively, or to transcode it in the background as you work, but so fast and invisibly, you won’t notice.

[Ben Oliver]

JVC makes a few prp-sumer camcorders that shoot to .move files that work with FCP7 in a snap…

[Ryan Aarstad]

Thanks for the replies. So basically, if one is shooting on an HD broadcast Panasonic in AVC Intra (because that utilizes h.264, right?) Then you would still use an intermediate codec?

Also, what you’re telling me is every human being who buys a newer consumer camcorder cannot edit it without transcoding to an intermediate codec? That does not seem right at all. That’s millions of people who are incapable of editing their footage, almost everyone! Let’s say most use AVCHD, that’s a form of H.264 right?

Thanks again for helping me to figure this out.

Ryan

[David Roth weiss]

[Ryan Aarstad] “what you’re telling me is every human being who buys a newer consumer camcorder cannot edit it without transcoding to an intermediate codec? That does not seem right at all. “

Ryan,

FCP legacy, with version 7 being the final and last version, is not capable of editing h.264 or mp4 without transcoding, for one simple reason, the code is four to five years old, and the newer video codecs didn’t make the cut. As I’ve written here many times, it would have been a lot better if Apple made FCP reject h.264 completely so people wouldn’t start editing with it at all, but they didn’t.

FCPX, Premiere, and Avid 5.5 and 6 are all much newer code, and they will do the job without transcoding. And, that’s just the way it is…

When people try to help you here, believe them, this is the one place on the planet you can get real advice from real editors.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

Don’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
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POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.

[Andrew Rendell]

Can I just interject with a clarification.

Panasonic’s “AVC Intra” is a subset of h.264 where the GOP is one frame, so the biggest problem with editing h.264, i.e., the long GOP stucture, doesn’t apply (and I believe Panasonic supply a plug in for AVC Intra that allows FCP to edit it without transcoding first although I haven’t used it yet myself).

AVCHD is another form of H.264 which does have the long GOP structure (and therefore isn’t easily editable).

[Shane Ross]

[Ryan Aarstad] “So basically, if one is shooting on an HD broadcast Panasonic in AVC Intra (because that utilizes h.264, right?) Then you would still use an intermediate codec?”

AVCIntra isn’t H.264…not like AVCHD is. AVCIntra native editing is possible in FCP 7. Just use L&T to re-wrap into Quicktime (as it is an MXF format, and FCP doesn’t do MXF native without plugins) and you edit on a ProRes timeline. Or, convert to ProRes. Up to you. The re-wrap process is fast…as long as it takes to copy the media from the card to a drive…zero transcoding is happening.

[Ryan Aarstad] “what you’re telling me is every human being who buys a newer consumer camcorder cannot edit it without transcoding to an intermediate codec?”

Everyone else already told you…Adobe Premiere, Vegas, Edius edit many formats natively. Avid does a few, but requires a lot to be transcoded to Avid DNxHD codecs. Editing AVCHD native, and Red native, requires a LOT of horsepower.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Shane Ross]

[Andrew Rendell] “(and I believe Panasonic supply a plug in for AVC Intra that allows FCP to edit it without transcoding first although I haven’t used it yet myself).”

That is for AVCHD…not AVCintra (AVCIntra is MXF, and you can edit that native with the MXF4MAc, Calibrated or Raylight plugins). And It allows you to VIEW it without transcoding. But editing AVCHD native with that plugin is NOT easy, by any means.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def