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GREAT article in the Frame.io blog about WHY FCP X went “magnetic.”
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[Shane Ross] “Where is the interview audio? Where is the scene audio? Where is the music and SFX? I can tell you right away by looking at this timeline. Interview is in Blue, and always on A1-A2 (some bleed to A3 if a third person is present). Scene work is always A3-A14. SFX – A15-A19, MUS A20-A21 and VO A-22. And I color code my tracks so I know exactly what is where. Interview is blue, scenes are green, SFX is salmon, music purple, VO yellow. I can see in an instant what is where. “
I understand that you are super fluent in “tracked timeline.”
Thats great.
But there are plenty of people who are EXACTLY as fluent in “non-track-based timelines” now.
They work as fluidly – and as efficiency – and as creatively as you do, IN THEIR LANGUAGE.
It’s like speaking Spanish verses speaking French.
If I was to assert that one of those was “better” than the other – both sides would howl at me with derision.
As well they should.
That’s what I’m afraid is happening here.
So I’ll leave it at that.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “But there are plenty of people who are EXACTLY as fluent in “non-track-based timelines” now.”
I know. And I don’t besmirch them for that.
[Bill Davis] ”
They work as fluidly – and as efficiency – and as creatively as you do, IN THEIR LANGUAGE.”I know, and I don’t desmirch them or mock them for this ability. The magnetic timeline is something many people love and use and it’s great for them. But it isn’t for everyone…I for one cannot deal with it. But I don’t think it’s useless because I can’t use it.
[Bill Davis] “It’s like speaking Spanish verses speaking French. “
Yup.
[Bill Davis] “If I was to assert that one of those was “better” than the other – both sides would howl at me with derision.
As well they should.
That’s what I’m afraid is happening here. “
NOPE. Again, you are completely missing the point. I am not having issue with how the magnetic timeline works, or how he pointed out it’s advantages. The last 3/4 of the article is good…it shows all that the magnetic timeline can do and how it’s amazing. It’s his setup premise that I call shenanigans on. The way he tried to point out how people edit with tracks is completely wrong. No one does what he describes. If there are people who do, they are in the vast minority…I have never heard of people editing the way he describes. So the whole setup to his article is flawed…”This is better because man, when you have tracks, you edit like this, and that’s highly technical and doesn’t follow the story. FCX allows you to focus on the story and not edit like that.” Only NO ONE EDITS LIKE THAT.
That is what I take issue with
Shane
Little Frog Post
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The whole premise…the BASE for the article is flawed. Based on very flawed and wrong assumptions about how people edit, and then goes to point out how FCX is better. Only…again…no one edits the way he says they edit. He could have said “how the magnetic timeline speeds up your editing process” and pointed out how it differs from tracks. THOSE are valid points. But, as also pointed out…all things we have seen before. It’s not showing anything new.
Shane
Little Frog Post
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[Shane Ross] “I have never heard of people editing the way he describes. “
Agreed.
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[Bill Davis] “When you put that clip on a timeline where the timelines OWN functional system REQUIRES that element to exist at 45 sec and 12 frames – that’s what the program was MAKING happen. “
Hmmm…when I put a clip in an FCX Project, it exists at a point in time. In fact, FCX has this little timecode indicator to tell you, “hey, this clip you put here exists at 1:00;45;12.” So, that’s no different than a timeline with tracks. The PROJECT and TIMELINE or SEQUENCE are the same thing…just named different. Both are where you place clips, and both have timecode associated with where you place that clip.
But that is not what he said in the article. He said:
“This audio cue needs to happen at 45 seconds and 12 frames in, which happens to visually correspond to what is going on with 5 tracks up the timeline and out of my view.”
He is saying that with track based editing, we focus on needing to put the clip on the timeline based on timing only. “I need this clip to happen at 1:00:45:12.” Only, again, no one does that. We place the clip on the timeline based on the story. I put the clip there not because it’s 45:12…but because the scene calls for music to start, or for a cutaway to happen. THAT is what I’m basing my decision on…not the time. THAT is the flaw in his thinking. I’m not making the decision based on time, but on story. Always have, always will.
[Bill Davis] “And that clip stayed at 45 second and 12 frames – regardless of anything else you did subsequently. Unless you moved it. And EVERYTHING around it while lassoing and grouping things to maintain sync.”
Yes…yes it will. Same with FCX…it stays put until you move it. If it’s connectd to a story, it will move, but I assume you want it to. But I don’t see your point here. It doesn’t move until you move it. yes, that’s how things work, generally.
[Bill Davis] “Just because you – as an excellent editor – maintained your focus on the story – and therefore didn’t realize that’s what you were doing – doesn’t mean the program wasn’t making you do EXACTLY that. “
Making me do what? What was the program making me do? Sorry, you lost me again.
[Bill Davis] “Storyline timecode in X is fixed only for the state your edit is currently in. And floats otherwise. “
I’m sorry, what? it floats? You mean, the timecode doesn’t stay fixed, but floats? How do you time out exactly how long something is if timecode floats? (Note the heavy sarcasm in that statement). I have NO IDEA what you are talking about here. But that might be the FCX/EverythingElse language barrier. Do you mean that the music clip, or cutaway doesn’t always stay at 45:12…that when you grab the Primary Story, or secondary, that it moves with it, and remains locked relative to the story you are moving? OK… I can see that. But if I move something in Avid, or Premiere…and choose that clip as well, IT TOO moves with what I am moving..as long as I choose it. I do understand that you can lock all the elements to a Story, and grab just part of that story and all the elements move. Yes, that is good, and fast, and helps not leave anything out.
But, again, that’s not what I have issue with. That’s not what the article said…that’s not the premise it laid out.
[Bill Davis] ”
If you choose to edit in a 10 frames clip 15 seconds into your entire 1 hour long project – in X a clip formerly at 0:45:45:12 – floats to 0:45:45:22. Automatically. Preserving it’s position relative to the assets around it (b-roll, sync sound, etc.)”Ah, I was right. And you can see my answer above. Again, this is not what the author said, so this point is moot.
Shane
Little Frog Post
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[Michael Hancock] “Basically – the attached clips timing to the clip it’s attached to is always preserved and carries with that shot, unless you choose not to. This can be nice – it can also be a headache. Just like moving stuff around with a tracked NLE! Sometimes it makes things easier. Sometimes it doesn’t.”
OK, I see that. All the clips can be attached to a shot, or a story. Got it. And then all you need to do is grab that one shot, the wide, and the sound moves with it. You don’t need to grab the wide, and then remember to also grab the sound. The sound is tied to the picture. I get that. And I can see how that might shave a couple seconds off my time working. But even more so…I can see that it helps save your butt if you FORGET to grab the sound to, as now it’s not connected and you either need to UNDO to then grab the sound too, or move the sound and spend some moments re-aligning it.
If that is what the author meant, he didn’t explain himself very well.
Shane
Little Frog Post
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[Shane Ross] “He is saying that with track based editing, we focus on needing to put the clip on the timeline based on timing only. “I need this clip to happen at 1:00:45:12.” Only, again, no one does that”
But he’s not. If he was saying that, he could have written “the editor is required to focus on…” but he didn’t say anything like that. It’s what you might have THOUGHT you were reading – but it’s not what Ruben actually wrote.
IMO, about 80% of these arguments is that the reader is reading what’s written through their own bias filter.
I will TOTALLY cop to that myself.
I’ve read things here and completely mis-construed the reality of what was being said, due to my default thinking.
So, if *I* can freely admit that – can you Shane? That we BOTH color our perception of things NOT meant to be as provocatively as we see them – into a hyper provocative reading that isn’t necessarily based on reality?
Just asking.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “But he’s not. If he was saying that, he could have written “the editor is required to focus on…” but he didn’t say anything like that. It’s what you might have THOUGHT you were reading – but it’s not what Ruben actually wrote.”
Then what did he write? What was he saying?
[Bill Davis] “IMO, about 80% of these arguments is that the reader is reading what’s written through their own bias filter.
I will TOTALLY cop to that myself.”
I always fess up when I’m wrong. Always. And yes, I do read things with my own point of view leading the way, as do most people. Seeing as you know FCX well, I guess you saw it differently. But if his aim was to convert anyone or show anyone who works with tracks that FCX is better, he blew it. He didn’t communicate that well to those of us used to track based editing.
Shane
Little Frog Post
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[Shane Ross] “But, as also pointed out…all things we have seen before. It’s not showing anything new.
“Got it. X is nothing new. The last six years of debate were worthless. Because everything is just the same as it’s always been. Nothing to see here. Move on.
Still, it’s astonishing in the light of that – the moment someone posts a piece that describes a difference that X brings to the table – so many have to LEAP up and declaim that it’s NOT really any different – that every OTHER option also does all those things. Just as well. And always has.
Lets cut to the chase of this part of the debate. Either eliminating friction in re-arranging story elements as blocks – IMPROVES storytelling – or it does not.
You can ASSERT that leaving the extra friction in is unimportant because editors can still concentrate on the story if they like – which is true.
But to me, the friction matters. A LOT.
If it didn’t, nobody would use keyboard shortcuts for anything.
After all, those are primarily ways to remove friction in actions that are perfectly possible via other means.
So in that sense, magnetism is a massive virtual persistent “keyboard shortcut” for story arrangement.
You can argue that you don’t want to use it. And that you are perfectly happy using a menu selection instead of a keyboard shortcut. And that’s your right. But don’t tell me I’m not practically faster at making story-centric alterations and versions via the X magnetic system – because I know I am.
Simple as that.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Shane Ross] “But if his aim was to convert anyone or show anyone who works with tracks that FCX is better, he blew it. He didn’t communicate that well to those of us used to track based editing.
“AND THAT RIGHT THERE – is the value of these forum discussions.
You saw his purpose as to “convert” – which is religious speak for abandon what you used to believe – and adopt a new ideology. And resistance to that is something everyone can understand. Nobody likes someone trying to “convert” them.
But what if “convert” wasn’t Ruben’s goal at all? What if it was simply to illuminate the WAY X elected to re-think what it re-throught?
Suddenly, it becomes an OPTION to sit and listen – rather than an attack that must be resisted.
Worth thinking about, perhaps.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.
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