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Getting HDV and HDCam onto the Same Timeline…Idea!
Here’s an email I sent to a FCP edit system reseller, I’d love to hear anyone’s feedback.
<"With FCP 5, they offer you the AIC as a sort of "offline/intermediate" codec, which seems to be one workaround for mixing different formats of HD together. It's in your list of available easy presets. This is how it seems to work: For HDV sources: You can attach your Sony HDV deck and choose the HDV -> Apple Intermediate Codec preset. You then digitize it and it transcodes on the fly to the AIC–only catch is, there’s no timecode so it effectively breaks any link back to your original media if you wanted to uprez and conform later on. I did this yesterday and digitized to the internal media drive, no problem.
For HDCam sources: Connect your deck to the Kona SDI in, then make a custom preset using your Kona Card as your digitizer and the AIC as the compressor. Thus, you digitize it the same way you would, say, digitize HD into DV for your offline edit–only this time, you’re using the AIC as your codec… This I haven’t tried, as I’m not in front of a Kona-equipped machine, but the Io would let me choose the AIC as a compressor, so I’m assuming the Kona would do the same thing… Again, theoretically, the internal drive should be fast enough to handle it as it played back the AIC media from the HDV test just fine.
In summation, this workflow would seem to allow several formats of HD to live together for those “garage” editors out there who don’t need full-strength HD finishing…kind of like where DV was back in 1998.”>
Whaddya think? Anyone test this out in your shop yet?
-Pierson
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12 Replies
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[Pierson Jacquelin] “In summation, this workflow would seem to allow several formats of HD to live together for those “garage” editors out there who don’t need full-strength HD finishing…kind of like where DV was back in 1998.”>”
Sorry but this is backwards – you need to convert to a real codec, not something that will regenerate frames ( ie: need to be rendered) on an ongoing basis.
Why not try what has already been posted– convert both the HDV and the HDCAM content to the DVCPROHD 1080|60 codec with your Kona board. Then you have a real timeline with all of the appropriate frames in a codec that can be handled with out constant rendering.Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA -
[gary adcock] “Why not try what has already been posted– convert both the HDV and the HDCAM content to the DVCPROHD 1080|60 codec with your Kona board.”
How do people use their Kona boards to digitize HDV and still get accurate Timecode when it’s time to conform? The Miranda box?
-P
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If you are effectively upconverting the footage to DVCPRO-HD, then you may not need to conform anything. I’ve found this codec looks great going back out to HD-CAM or just DVCPRO-HD tape.
There are, of course, many advantages to recapturing at 10-bit uncompressed. It all depends on the type of show and how much fine tuning needs to be done.
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[Pierson Jacquelin] “How do people use their Kona boards to digitize HDV and still get accurate Timecode when it’s time to conform? “
OK, think about what your saying,
How do you get accurate time code or conform something that only records an I-frame every 15 frames?
By using the FW connection for deck control you do have the ability to redigitize the content. But by capturing the HDV Video stream via Analog Component out of the camera you are actively creating those additional frames and no longer need to go back to the HDV tape if you digitize to a high enough quality (like DVCPROHD 1080|60)Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA -
[Pierson Jacquelin] “How do people use their Kona boards to digitize HDV and still get accurate Timecode when it’s time to conform? “
OK, think about what your saying,
How do you get accurate time code or conform something that only records an I-frame every 15 frames?
By using the FW connection for deck control you do have the ability to redigitize the content. But by capturing the HDV Video stream via Analog Component out of the camera you are actively creating those additional frames and no longer need to go back to the HDV tape if you digitize to a high enough quality (like DVCPROHD 1080|60)Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA -
but let’s say you want to modify the program a year from now – having used the HDV footage as DVCPROHD – you cannot batch digitize off the original HDV tapes with any accuracy – no?
I am no expert, but trying to figure out peoples’ workflows as I get ready to hopefully get a Kona FCP system.
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[gary adcock] “OK, think about what your saying,
How do you get accurate time code or conform something that only records an I-frame every 15 frames?”Ummm…because I have blind faith in the Sony engineers that came up with this format wouldn’t do something that dastardly to us? …but mostly it’s my naive assumption that just because I see what looks like timecode numbers in the top right of the LCD: that means that every frame is numerically accounted for on the tape and can be found later…right? 😉
But seriously, Mike brings up a good point in the next post:
“but let’s say you want to modify the program a year from now – having used the HDV footage as DVCPROHD – you cannot batch digitize off the original HDV tapes with any accuracy – no?”
1) Would my batch dij be off by an average of 15 frames when I re-conform?
2) Is the only surefire way to ensure forward-compatiblity is to dub them to a DVCPro HD or HDCam tape?
I’m thinking here of the whole offline/online editing process — some people do need to eventually go to another platform, for whatever nerarious reasons…and some of them will go pale when you tell them you need to dub all 43 tapes of their little doc to HDCam before we can begin editing.
…I do like the idea of using the Panasonic codec for projects that will stay on my machine, tho.
-Pierson
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Sounds like my current workflow Pierson.
I currently primarily edit with analog Media 100i – capture from DVCPRO via S-Video or the occasional BetaSP via component.
If someone sends me an SVHS tape, I dupe it off to DV so I can have timecode for offline/online.
99% of the time I do my 1,2,3rd edits at low-res 20kb/frame, then only conform at full res for the final edit, and routinely tweak stuff over a 6 month period thanks to batch dig.So it sounds like if you want this same functionality with HDV tapes, you need to either dub it to DVCPRO HD (assuming you have a deck) or digitize as DVCPRO HD via Kona or whatever, and never delete the files (yeah ok).
Glad I am reading these threads before putting my proposal together – very educational – much more so than any product information from the manufacturers.
Incidentally, will FCP with a Kona or decklink let you digitize at low-res to save space for later conforming – or does the SATA raid or whatever you are using just have so much space that you don’t worry about space. A little off topic, but thought I would ask.
M ike
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[Mike Cohen] “Incidentally, will FCP with a Kona or decklink let you digitize at low-res to save space for later conforming – or does the SATA raid or whatever you are using just have so much space that you don’t worry about space. A little off topic, but thought I would ask.”
Usually there’s so much space it doesn’t matter. Especially if you are using the DV codec as your offline and then uprez in, say, 8 bit HD.
…But I am used to a 2 Terabyte X-Raid…
-Pierson
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what do use use for your x-raid?
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