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Gamma Issue
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[rafalaos] “Then i do not understand the new option of QT player for setting the gamma to 2.2 on display.”
why
if the computer is set the default gamma of 1.8- Quicktime will show all video at 2.2 – but apps like AE, FCP and others do not compensate for the difference.
By Setting your MASTER color gamma to 2.2 – there is no need for EVERY app to make adjustments- the monitor is already at the correct video gamma of 2.2
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflowshttps://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php
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[rafalaos] ”
“Gamma handling is different in Shake and Final Cut Pro”
https://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93794
“if your going to quote an article – better make sure when it was written
you quoted a 2004 document was written for FCP 4.5 and OS 10.2
Not very current , 2 FCP and 3 OS versions later
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflowshttps://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php
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As long as I know, nothing has changed with respect to the Gamma since 2004.
At least the documentation of FCS2 and SHAKE 4.1 don’t say nothing new.
FC don’t know if you already have changed the gamma of your display.
So if FC is boosting the gamma in the canvas to 2.2 and you have your screen already in 2.2,
I don’t know what gamma are you getting in the FC canvas, because you are applying TWO gamma correction to the picture.
Rafael -
[rafalaos] “As long as I know, nothing has changed with respect to the Gamma since 2004. “
that would not be correct- FCP5 and QT 7 both had major changes to correct this issue, more improvements came in FCP 6. and this does not include the Operating system.
[rafalaos] “f FC is boosting the gamma in the canvas to 2.2 and you have your screen already in 2.2, I don’t know what gamma are you getting in the FC canvas, because you are applying TWO gamma correction to the picture.”that is incorrect.
if you would take the time to investigate the documentation or try it yourself – you would find out that QT DOES NOT compound the gamma as you state, in my set up where the Computer displays Gamma is set to 2.2 QT Sees that your file is flagged as 2.2 gamma and does nothing.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflowshttps://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php
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Thnks for the info Gary. I will try to put all this clear in my head.
In the times of the NTSC-PAL, everything was so easy..
Rafael -
Gary,
Thanks for the interesting information in your posts. With respect, there is seemingly a great deal of confusion on gamma within Apple. Several high profile Apple people here in Europe loudly and publicly insist that 1.8 is dead and buried and that all systems should be calibrated to 2.2. This is certainly the norm for my native industry (photography).
I have come to video only recently and despite the appearance of Color in FCP6, there seems to be a huge discrepancy between the level of gear in use and until the MXO, the lack of calibration, bar the branded (and IMHO, overpriced) reference monitors. It seems strange that no has thought to bring colorsysnc to digital video and therefore eliminate the gamma and other potential color problems?
I have recently spent time searching for further clarification of gamma in FCP 5 and 6, but there is little ‘official’ information out there.
Nick.
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Nick Wilcox-Brown,
Photographer and Consultant.W: http://www.theimageconsultancy.com
W: http://www.nickwb.com -
[Nick Wilcox-Brown] ” Several high profile Apple people here in Europe loudly and publicly insist that 1.8 is dead and buried and that all systems should be calibrated to 2.2. This is certainly the norm for my native industry (photography). “
Nick, I do not disagree, the 1.8 gamma standard was great when all we did on macs was print work, and most that was decided prior to “real” plateless revolution. Apple is the only platform that maintains a default 1.8 gamma, and it is about time they joined the rest of the world.
” the lack of calibration, bar the branded (and IMHO, overpriced) reference monitors. “
Video is not print, and the calibration system was set up for a universal standard that was repeatable at the inception, around 1958-1960 when color came into widespread use. Your Print medium changed much much later, and there for had a different evolution.TRUE Ref monitors for professional video are as required as an X-rite monitoring and calibration system for prepress work is – and they cost about the same as that monitor and have the same rules – if you are a working pro you need one, if you are just making prints on your laser printer – or delivering video to youtube you may not need such professional tools.
If you make your living being paid to deliver a professional product, you need to have the proper tools.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD -
[Gary Adcock]” If you make your living being paid to deliver a professional product, you need to have the proper tools”.
Indeed, I do and I do – not yet up to speed in video as yet“Apple is the only platform that maintains a default 1.8 gamma and it is about time they joined the rest of the world”.
But in many ways they seem by means of Quartz and Colorsync to have done so, just not with FCP? Even QT seems to be ‘on side’“Video is not print, and the calibration system was set up for a universal standard that was repeatable at the inception, around 1958-1960 when color came into widespread use”.
The print production workflow was forced to change in the 90s; does the video world need the consistency and interoperability update that color management could bring?Nick
Nick Wilcox-Brown,
Photographer and Consultant.
W: http://www.theimageconsultancy.com
W: http://www.nickwb.com -
[Nick Wilcox-Brown] “But in many ways they seem by means of Quartz and Colorsync to have done so, just not with FCP? Even QT seems to be ‘on side’ “
those are apple OS specific apps and not available to the rest of the world. IMHO this is still some of the legacy code that apple insists on forcing on its users, and we thought leopard would fix all of this.
remember that calibration needs to be made on a multitude of devices that are not connected or run by computers. Apple does not rule the broadcast world, they are but a very small player in a large field.
“The print production workflow was forced to change in the 90s; does the video world need the consistency and interoperability update that color management could bring?”
you cannot compare the 2 worlds, one was redefined when digital took over, the other one
BluRay disks currently can only deliver interlaced content, and much to the dismay of the rest of the world the spec is actually 1080i60 worldwide.
you’re new at this and you will have to accept it and move on.
maybe when we start using Ultra HD we may be able change the specs, but for now.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD -
Gary,
The gamma stuff is all useful, but i read the initial post and Ben mentioned output from Sorenson Squeeze. I spent a lot of time last year working with Squeeze on a project and i found problems way beyond monitor gamma. There are related problems in many apps that are obviously interpreting gamma and/or levels incorrectly for one reason or another. My problems were with 720P video in various codecs. I finally created an FCP output filter set to scale the video down for export, and a corresponding set to rescale on input to Squeeze encoding. It was a trial and error process. I found a similar problem with Main Concepts MPEG encoder for Mac, but on a much smaller scale – just a minor, but visible, gamma change.These problems were verified by decoding and evaluating the video from the files, not just looking at them on monitors. So the errors that Ben is talking about could be real processing errors and not just monitoring ones.
cheers,
crcVision Unlimited/LA
Prairieville, LA
HD technical support since 1987
…searching for the right tools for the job
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