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Freelance Editing + non competition agreement
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Hey Scott,
I noticed that you didn’t vote..?
So far we have only got Lisa’s story, so everything else is pure speculation.
But here is an opinion:
I do freelance from time to time and I do understand the concept of desperate and hard times. I’ve never said that anyone owns any client, I’ve merely pointed out the ethical way of how one should be doing business with ones current clients. And according to Lisa, she did not fire her client before accepting her client’s client. She didn’t even discuss it – that shows intent. But it is true to say that her “old friend” has got no legal claim on the client.
But Scott, as a professional freelancer: Would you ever work the same hours at the same rate that Lisa (and her producer) did? Because that is what has become central to this whole discussion.
Lisa feels that her actions is OK, because in effect Lisa did not ask for proper money in the first place. Question is whether Lisa had ever worked for PBS before? We know that is a no.
And whether without her friend’s help, we don’t know if she would ever had had the chance to work for PBS or how long it would have taken her to get through that door?
What we do know is that Lisa is not a loyal freelancer, and to support her claim she is quite happy to go through other peoples private notes, including publishing them – whether the producer forgot them, is not an excuse to do such a bad thing – because in the end as I understand it, Lisa did get paid the rate she agreed to do the job for.
If not or if the hours was out or what-ever, Lisa could have re-negotiated for a better rate or walked away – but she didn’t. So no, Lisa has only got herself to blame. And two wrongs, certainly don’t make a right.
Before offering the same low rates to PBS I think that Lisa should read the https://magazine.creativecow.net/article/clients-or-grinders-understanding-the-three-market-types article. Because there will always be a hungry freelancer around the corner ready to take her slot.
Anyway, I’ll get off my high horse now. However, what I do find interesting about this, is the discussion of ethics and ethical behaviour. In the UK we have new, and tougher than the US, laws coming into force in May (Anti-Bribery Act). Some people call it a crusade for the West to be righteous; due to the simple fact that we within the next 10 years won’t be able to compete on innovation, manufacturing, population, growth etc., but Ethical Behaviour is something that we in the West can always win on. (That was an attempt to include sarcasm, before anyone gets going)
Never the less, a UK based CEO will from 1st of May be liable for something that an employee did wrong in another country half way around the globe, even if that was to “offer a packet of cigarettes”. So there is on our side of the pond a lot of evaluations going on about how one as a person and a company behaves ethically. I shall be the first to put my hand up and say that I don’t always get it right, but I’m happy to amend my ways and I always learn from my mistakes. But we are facing a new world order, and that not only includes treatment of freelancers and contractors, but also how they behave.
Interesting times ahead – but please do vote above on my question in the previous post. I’m very interested in discussing it either in the forum or off-line.
my 1p…
All the Best
Mads
London, UKPlease do visit our faceBook page here: https://www.facebook.com/MacMillionProductions
Mac Million Ltd. – Digital Media Production
Blog: https://macmillionltd.blogspot.com -
The low salary isn’t germane to the argument. She got what she contracted for. One of my favorite bible stories is in Matthew, ch. 20. Guy owns a vineyard, needs to bring the harvest crop in, in a big hurry, storm or something is coming and anything left behind will be ruined. He hires some guys in the morning for a set wage. Later in the day owner sees he’s still behind, hires more guys. Last hour or so before dark, still not quite caught up, he hires more guys. Comes time to pay the workers, every worker get the same amount. The guys from the morning all-day shift are upset that the one-hour guys got paid the same for working one hour. Vineyard owner asks if the morning guys got what had been agreed to. They agreed they had. Vineyard owner tells them that the rest of it is none of their business then, it’s his money to spend or waste as he sees fit, and they are not to get mad that somebody else did “better” than they did, if they got what they had fairly agreed to get.
That she got paid a crummy wage she agreed to is never by itself an excuse to do wrong.
You CAN make the argument that when anybody works for too cheap a rate, it depresses the local rates for everyone else, and is ultimately bad for business. The moral there is to know your rate and the local rates, and not just take the first number they hand out as the best deal.
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I am not actually saying that my actions were okay, but I am admitting some pent up frustration which is normal for any human being. But even with that said…. I would even say it was a mistake. It wasn’t really sneaky intent at that moment when I said “yes” there was not a mean ulterior motive, but perhaps more of a justification feeling. Mads, not saying you’re wrong, and yes you are only getting my side of the story. (Which there are always two perspectives) This is my perspective. I’ve told no lies, but simply my perspective.
Mads, you seem like a “black & white, right or wrong” kind of guy who doesn’t allow for the gray areas in life. I can assure you there are plenty of gray areas and since I do not plan on inviting my producer on this forum, I am telling you my perspective and situation.
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Because production notes were written all over. I don’t think she meant for me to see it. And I really have no reason to lie on a forum of all places. We all need guidance once in a while, and maybe sometimes we need a little affirmation (this is normal). But after 24 hours of playing the situation over and over in my head, I still feel like I’m not doing anything wrong by accepting the job. Wasn’t sure at first, that’s why I posted. Wanted to simply get opinions.
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I hear you, and I know it’s my fault for agreeing with the salary, but she could have chose to pay me whatever she wanted (more would have been fair) She had total control over the disbursement of the money.
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True!!! And I really don’t mind the differing of opinions… stings a little, (especially when I feel so right …lol) but I love the discussion.
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Mads
“Hey Scott,I noticed that you didn’t vote..?”
Sorry, I don’t get what you mean?
Mads,
“So far we have only got Lisa’s story, so everything else is pure speculation.”I will take her story at face value. We have no reason not to. It sounds credible, and is plausible.
Mads,
“I’ve never said that anyone owns any client,…”Well, lets see what you did say:
“Allow me to disagree with the others on this one: Any one of my freelancers that takes up work directly with anyone of my clients that has been introduced through me, without getting my blessing first, seize with immediate effect to work for me (and being my friend).”“My clients”? “My freelancers”? You own your clients and freelancers? I’ll bet that is news to them.
I’m sorry Mads, but that statement wreaks of ownership and entitlement. Unless you have a contract, I say the client is free to choose whoever they wish.
The producer should have had a contract with PBS if she was that concerned.
Long story short, no contract, no ownership.This whole idea that an introduction to a potential employer means you owe this person a royalty is a straw man. Job one everyone got paid for the job they did. End of story, end of relationship, no contract, no one owes anyone anything. Equilibrium.
Job #2 starts from that point. Why does Lisa owe the producer for this work? And how is it unethical to accept this work? (double face palm)Is she the victim of a grinder? It’s up to her to decide that. Sometimes fast nickles beats slow dollars.
As far as her rate etc, that is a completely separate issue, and not the one at hand. The issue is the non-compete contract.Mads,
“What we do know is that Lisa is not a loyal freelancer, and to support her claim she is quite happy to go through other peoples private notes, including publishing them –”These are no longer private when they are carelessly left in her home. This is an admitted gray area. It is clear that the producer was careless, and sloppy.
So there is always someone that comes along that will work for less.
So what??? Why do so many people think they can hide their lack of competitiveness behind a non-compete? IMHO, it is about a sense of entitlement.
Either you change your rate, offer more for the money, or let them go. If a competitor can do the same work for less money, it is up to you to figure out how they are able to do that. Sometimes the client finds out the lower priced person cuts too many corners, and comes back. And sometimes they don’t. And sometimes it means there are a million FCP licenses out there and the market is saturated, and the good old days are over.Similar situation:
I replaced a Director on a show that didn’t TD his own show. I do. The TD that used to get that gig isn’t needed. I didn’t charge more even though I did what amount to two jobs. I just like to cut my own show when possible. The TD went around whining to everyone about how I screwed him. I didn’t screw him at all. What screwed him was his sense of entitlement. If he knew how to Direct, he could have gotten the gig. But he thought he owned the TD slot on this gig, and thought he was untouchable, and never bothered to learn another job. In the freelance world, unless you have a contract you don’t own sh*t.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed… -
Hey Scott,
You better go back and read my previous post, because something clearly passed you by.
I don’t like being misquoted: For the record, I don’t own any clients and have never said so.
I do however make the strong choice of not re-hiring people or companies who decides to work around my company and thereby loose us revenue – that opinion is my prerogative to have, and I dare you to find anyone, including yourself, who would not do the same?
It is true to say, that I in this discussion have taken the moral high-ground and aimed more at the ethical behaviour rather than the legalities of the situation. From what I’ve deduced from your postings, you’ve in my opinion chosen the gravel-pit, and that is OK. Let’s just agree to disagree, and then leave it at that.
I wish you the best of Luck – thank you.
All the Best
Mads
London, UKPlease do visit our faceBook page here: https://www.facebook.com/MacMillionProductions
Mac Million Ltd. – Digital Media Production
Blog: https://macmillionltd.blogspot.com -
Hey Lisa,
No problem, I really wish you the best of luck.
Please keep in mind the warning that is at the top of this forum. Your producer (and ex-friend) might decide to search on your full name and PBS (Just try this for your number 1 spot: “lisa serman” pbs). You might not invite her, but Google will.
The person that got you your first PBS credit and I suspect your first broadcast credit is the one that you should make friends with.
As much as it sounds like a trivial line out of the nearest self-help book, the following absolutely works for me: Treat other people, like you want to be treated. Eventually you’ll be aligned to only be working with people who is of same mind and same integrity as you are.
All the Best
Mads
London, UKPlease do visit our faceBook page here: https://www.facebook.com/MacMillionProductions
Mac Million Ltd. – Digital Media Production
Blog: https://macmillionltd.blogspot.com -
Sorry, Didn’t mean to start a big argument. Well, Where is my knight in shining armor to whisk me away to the Caribbean. Need that now.
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