-
For those who are still Fishing…..
-
[Jeremy Garchow]Just curious. How long do you think that machine will last you?
I’ve had one motherboard go out on my current desktop PC and I replaced it in 2007. Replaced the CPU (for a Quad core) a couple of years ago. I routinely upgrade, but there are a lot of original components all the same. All still going strong.
That Macs last longer than Windows boxes is a complete myth.
-
[John Joyce] ” my worry is that Adobe will leave the Mac market.
It has happened before, twice in my personal experience. And I was burned twice. “I can easily see scenarios where that might happen. Darren is a good example. BTW let’s not forget that Avid nearly did the same.
I suspect most FCPX switchers are simply moving software at the moment, hence the increase sales of Mac versions. Over time those Macs will age and, if Darren were to represent the majority, most will move to Windows since, as several have already argues, one can either get similar power for less money or more power for similar money (particularly when it comes to GPU options). If that’s truly the market than both Adobe and Avid may leave the Mac as a market driven decision.
The question is, does Apple have a motive to sell Macs or not. Right now there’s Thunderbolt and, I suspect eventually, a more affordable modular MacPro replacement. Certainly IBC is showing that Thunderbolt is attractive to the video and storage developers and, given the price of these boxes, these are geared towards “pros.”
From what I’ve read, Apple’s computer market share is growing. They never breakout numbers though. I speculate that the MacPro is the weakest link though. Apple has overcome one of its more serious problems. The boxes they’d been selling had limited expandability. With MacBookAir, MacBookPro, MacMini, iMac all sporting Thunderbolt ports, that’s been a big change. Given the growing Thunderbolt support, this points to fewer reasons for someone to get a MacPro.
One thing the MacPro has, it CPU/GPU capabilities the others don’t. That’s why I think Apple will make a more affordable Thunderbolt based box with greater CPU/GPU capabilities to replace the MacPro.
It’s also why I think FCPX will be designed to sell those boxes. Apple’s goal, I think, will be to create a value proposition that’ll be tough to beat.
-
Look at the economy we’re in. I know if I had taken your suggestion to buy a Z class machine, I would have spent more money. Would it have been the same $6700 I would have spent on the MacPro solution? Don’t know.
Are you getting paid the same amount as you were for video production in the late 90’s and early part of this century? I’m not. I have a friend who keeps saying he’s never worked so hard for little money.
I use to shoot with a Broadcast grade Betacam camera. Now I shoot with a camera used for broadcast, but hardly has the reach and abilities of my previous cameras.
If I ran a network, I’d be outfitting hundreds of edit suites. ThenI’d buy the HP Workstation.
DBK
-
[Darren Kelly] “If I ran a network, I’d be outfitting hundreds of edit suites. ThenI’d buy the HP Workstation.”
Why? Do you think they aren’t feeling the economy as well? Keep in mind one factors more than the initial hardware purchase though. There’s the cost of maintenance and downtime . . . but that’s the same for a one person shop if not more so.
[Darren Kelly] “Look at the economy we’re in. I know if I had taken your suggestion to buy a Z class machine, I would have spent more money.”
You’ve made a good argument for the decline of the workstation regardless of platform. Either you are the exception or HP is acutely aware of commodity PCs beating workstations.
-
[Darren Kelly] “Why do you believe it will suddenly die or something?”
No, not at all.
Just curious, like I said.
-
[Gary Huff] “That Macs last longer than Windows boxes is a complete myth.”
Who said that? In today’s market, I’d imagine they are even.
I hope so, we now have a windows box for our server. It’s mostly pci splits though, no fancy GPU/CPU required.
-
“There’s the cost of maintenance and downtime . . . but that’s the same for a one person shop if not more so.”
That’s the reason the work station exists. I some VP of production, and I want to know what every station has, where the spares are kept – all these large installs have spares on hand, or in a central place – . Everything must be the same, so someone can advise exactly how to repair something.
As an independent, if smoke suddenly comes from my box, I can rush out to the electronics store, and buy what ever I need to get back up and running.
That NBC affiliate, or what ever has to call the boss, who has to call maintenance, who has to grab the same part…… you get the picture.
We still need high end machines, I’m just not sure I need to spend 5.5X the cost of a windows machine on a Mac to achieve the same, or lesser results.
It’s reality check time – not for Apple, but for users. Applle have made their decisions. Now it’s time to make ours
DBK
-
[Darren Kelly] “I some VP of production, and I want to know what every station has, where the spares are kept – all these large installs have spares on hand, or in a central place – . Everything must be the same, so someone can advise exactly how to repair something.”
A systems builder can do that without having to purchase a workstation.
[Darren Kelly] “As an independent, if smoke suddenly comes from my box, I can rush out to the electronics store, and buy what ever I need to get back up and running.”
As can be done in a facility.
[Darren Kelly] “We still need high end machines, I’m just not sure I need to spend 5.5X the cost of a windows machine on a Mac to achieve the same, or lesser results.”
Budgets are declining. If one can build a “high end” machine for less with easy to replace “off the shelf” components then that’s where the market will move. The argument about “high end” machines is the same whether Mac or PC. Only PCs allow more customization.
Personally it’s the individual who may more likely need the “high end” machine. A facility can centralize, ingest, storage, media management. The independent needs one box to do it all. A facility needs high speed throughput to the brain (server, san) whereas the independent must have it all in one box. The “workstation” will become just that, a “station” feeding a larger transit system for the facility. One might even say this is where Avid has been heading. It’s where I think Apple will head but very different approach.
-
Is this small thinking?
What if the box no longer even matters. What if everything does eventually end up stored in the cloud?
What if “editing” is something you do merely by manipulating the metadata via the cloud?
Shoot wherever. Upload everything. The “edit” is something you do on a desktop, a laptop, or yes, even a smart phone or pad. The user interface scales to whatever manipulation device you need to use at the moment. The “software” scales functions in response to required speed of access, not whatever the “moment in time” package was that you bought on the plastic disc.
What exactly are all those servers Apple installed in North Carolina capable of? We know it’s cloud sourced music and software in the initial iteration. But what will it be in the third or fourth?
In that game, it’s no longer “features” that rule the day. It’s data processing efficiency. Period. Features become purely a function of code in a mainframe somewhere.
We are told that part of the FCP-X re-structure was to clean out the code and make it more efficient.
Something that seems to have worked really well as evidenced to me by this snap from an Apple Insider post (link at: files.me.com/davisbill/ftt6c9) that shows the processor efficiency of a series of running Mac apps – indicating that Flash, just like Steve Jobs always alleged is a substantial resource hog – while FCP-X sips processing power very efficiently.
48 threads running via FCP-X using only 4% of the CPU power. Flash is running twice that many threads but requiring nearly half the machine’s CPU cycles to do so.
Others more computer savvy than I can interpret this better (I’m always leery of applying meaning to statistics I don’t fully understand) but this look pretty compelling to my semi-educated brain.
FWIW.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
-
[Bill Davis] “What if the box no longer even matters. What if everything does eventually end up stored in the cloud?
What if “editing” is something you do merely by manipulating the metadata via the cloud?”
I’ve already seen such editing system under development at a trade show earlier this year. It’s still fairly primitive but it can be done.
Keep in mind though ingesting to the cloud can be major time consuming given file size vs upload speed.
Once uploaded though, the ability to do long distance collaboration would be of value to some.
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up