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For those of you still on the fence – check this out
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[Bill Davis] “I also applaud “openness” as a general way of doing business. And I admire Adobe for clearly putting a premium on this kind of R&D effort. It will clearly move the high dollar “feature film” oriented end of the industry forward.”
I don’t think the “rub-a-dub” is a high end feature. Imagine you’ve got a corporate spokesman delivering copy in a MS, it’s a great take but in the middle there’s a siren that goes off behind a few words. You go back and re-do it in CU, which is never a pretty cut. The second take is OK, but clearly the first is better. You can now take a phrase from the second take and drop it in to fix the phrase. Doing this manually is a PITA, now it’s automatic. It’s the audio equivalent of X’s ability to match color from one clip to the next.
As for the Photoshop fix blur feature, if they can do it in Photoshop they will be able to do it with video. The 2 things I most often get asked to do by clients that I can’t do is
1) make this shot less blurry and
2) get rid of the echo in the sound.The possibility that I will be able to do #1 is fantastic, and it is definitely not a “high end” feature.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
We are pumping out product faster and at what appears to be better quality. Even used FCPX to present multiple videos at a conference a few weeks ago on a $30,000 HD projector. My editors are finding it harder to move back to FCS for projects, however, we do have a multi-cam project to edit next month. Purchased and installed the Adobe suite, but nothing has motivated us to open Premiere.
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Bill,
The debate has been long and hard fought. In my opinion, and that of others, Apple dropped the ball. FCPX and it’s suite of products no longer operates or have the tools most editors need. If you and or your company can make it with FCPX, I am happy for you. It is one of the lowest cost solutions going.
But if what you do requires a more professional model – WITH SUPPORT, which Apple no longer provides to FCP7 users, needs integration with software like After Effects, Photoshop, Encoders, etc. FCPX is not that product.
You can argue that some people sell work that has been edited in iMovie. That is perfectly true. Does it make it a professional editing tool. No. Do people make money with it. Yes.
What I was trying to point out is that while Apple is trying to patch their application with features that have made FCPX not an option for many post houses, Adobe is putting their resources toward some tools and features that will make their product even more feature rich that they are today.
I really couldn’t care less about the FCPX debate. If you drank the Kool-Aid, fine by me. I have been an apple user since 1988. I have owned as many as 5 Apple Edit Suites at the same time, I have had one of each iPod, and iPhone 3G, 3Gs and 4. I have had both iPads. I am a fan.
Moving to the PC was a tough decision, but, like every editor, I had used Premiere in the past, so jumping to it now was not a big issue. The realtime, the extra features Premiere added – all making my life easier.
DBK
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“I am cautious, however, that that’s going to be the bulk of the “day to day” editing done over the next few decades. A few hundred feature films make a whole lot of money, but for every one of them, there are likely tens of thousands of “everyday” business videos created to drive financial results. I suspect that FCP-X is targeting this larger, more diverse group of productions with X.”
Maybe Dennis can correct me if I’m wrong, but this is where (I believe) a large portion of Premiere Pro users already are. I’ve been in corporate media production for about 15 years, and for the most part, this is what I’ve seen in this space; small to medium sized shops (internal and external) using the Production Suite for day to day work… mostly on Windows. Can Apple lure Premiere Pro/After Effects/Photoshop users away with FCPX and Motion? Maybe… but I would be very surprised if they could. I think I’ve said this before, but an updated 64bit FCP Studio with updated Shake might have been compelling enough to make me SERIOUSLY consider buying a Mac (heck, even just an updated Shake)… FCPX and Motion don’t seem to show as much promise to me. Maybe other Adobe CSx.x users can chime in here, but from where I sit, Adobe’s respect and commitment to its user base and its integration story seem really hard to match… Apple would have to show me a lot more to even make FCPX an option.
Thanks,
Shawn
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[Herb Sevush] ” As for the Photoshop fix blur feature, if they can do it in Photoshop they will be able to do it with video. The 2 things I most often get asked to do by clients that I can’t do is
1) make this shot less blurry and
2) get rid of the echo in the sound. “In my experience, when they say 1 above they’re usually not talking about camera shake, which rubadub addresses, but focus issues, which would be FANTASTIC, if they could fix, but I suspect not. Taking a defocused image and re-focusing is a whole lot different from taking camera shake and removing the ghosts. But we’ll see. I wish them well and hope they pull this off.
As to 2 I share your wish completely. In my experience, it’s usually horrible mic technique and trying to fix it is akin to taking a can of yellow paint and subsequently attempting to extract the blue and green components. But the laws of physics being what they are, if the Adobe folks can figure out how to fix or even just significantly improve what most people describe as “echo” in field recordings (actually more often, I suspect, poor signal-to-noise ratio from distant micing), I’ll be the first to leap to my feet and applaud them.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Bill Davis] “In my experience, when they say 1 above they’re usually not talking about camera shake, which rubadub addresses”
Better go look at that Adobe video one more time Bill.
Rubadub has nothing to do with camera shake or soft images, it’s an audio syncing tool for automated ADR.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[Bill Davis] “In my experience, when they say 1 above they’re usually not talking about camera shake, which rubadub addresses, but focus issues, which would be FANTASTIC”
Take a look at this. They are talking about “focus” – in Photoshop for now, but I’ll bet it won’t take long to make it work for video.
https://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2011-sneak-peeks/max-2011-sneak-peek-image-deblurring/
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
[Bill Davis] “I am cautious, however, that that’s going to be the bulk of the “day to day” editing done over the next few decades. A few hundred feature films make a whole lot of money, but for every one of them, there are likely tens of thousands of “everyday” business videos created to drive financial results. I suspect that FCP-X is targeting this larger, more diverse group of productions with X.”
Really? Business videos is most of my work and FCPX doesn’t meet the needs for that right now. That’s been the whole point since it’s release on day one. This forum proves that I’m not the only one with that view.
As for Adobe, I’d rather have them tell us where they’re going, even if it takes awhile. Kudos on that, since Apple’s approach of not telling you anything, other than to tell you the next release will be great, only to bring out something totally different that is woefully lacking didn’t seem to work too well for them.
Given the choice, I say talk too much…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com -
In my quote I was addressing BOTH notes – audio echo and camera shake.
I mis-typed rubadub re one when I intened to apply it to the other.
I watched BOTH videos. And as I noted, I’ll be delighted if they can handle one or both with practical solutions
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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Well, maybe, Mitch.
But that’s precisely why I have difficulty warming up to the RED approach.
They talked, and talked, and talked and talked about what was going to happen. Then when it finally did, it was NOTHING like they implied. They delivered a great product for the top of the industry. But every bit of marketing hype I remember was talking about a $10k camera. Not the $50k plus “system” they eventually delivered in fits and spurts.
I’ve probably just seen too many companies over too many years try to suppress migration or hold the market in suspense while they worked things out – only to have them miss countless deadlines.
That”s not a slam on RED or on ADOBE. Just how I experienced waiting long stretches hoping that a tool I was interested in might become available.
In fairness, Adobe, in particular, does NOT have that kind of history. They’ve always delivered and supported fine software.
I just still think they’re missing the larger trend of where content creation is increasingly going – and that’s more in line with where Apple is betting.
But I could certainly be wrong.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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